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With criminal Trump, having as he does zero respect for laws and legal norms, taking over the DOJ, and literally saying he is going to incarcerate his political enemies, it would be a national security risk for the former president’s family to be in federal custody or facing serious federal charges.
I agree. Since Biden believes that Trump is a fascist, and he didn’t do this for purely selfish reasons, I expect him to also issue a blanket pardon for all undocumented immigrants as he is granted the power two do under Article II, Section 2 of the US Constitution. Otherwise, I’ll have choice but to believe that he is a corruot individual who is actually just saving his son from legal consequences of matters already resolved in court.
Who gives a shit? Republicans made a felon president. Nothing fucking matters anymore.
A felon that had to be given immunity by the supreme court he picked himself in order to stay out of prison long enough for the richest man in the world to get him elected.
You can’t make this shit up
Reminds me of
It’s not that people are mad he’s doing it, we’re mad he’s not doing more meaningful thing that will help people not named Biden or help a foreign country commit a genocide.
What gets me tho is his supporters applauding this.
Even when he spent months promising not to do this because of the sanctity of justice system…
I know I could tell he was lying. But his supporters swore up and down Biden wouldn’t lie, and now they’re supporting it.
Do you honestly not understand why 1/3 of the country treats both parties as out of touch liars who don’t care for 99.99% of Americans?
Like, if “nothing matters” why isn’t Biden doing more? Why isn’t he even appointing all the empty judges seats before Trump can?
Why is the only things he can do on his way out the door arming a genocidal far right religious state for their genocide and pardoning his own son?
Even when he spent months promising not to do this because of the sanctity of justice system…
He probably wasn’t lying. Hunter was convicted for purely political reasons. The crimes he was convicted of are rarely enforced and almost never result in jail time against first offenders. The President assumed that his son would be treated fairly like any other first time offender. He believed in the sanctity of the justice system but has now been forced to revise that opinion because it’s perfectly clear that he was wrong.
the crimes he was convicted of are rarely enforced and almost never resulted in jail time against first offenders
This is the same line trump supporters use when defending his convictions, and it probably is true for both. If your in politics you and your family are, and should be, under more legal scrutiny then an average person. That’s the price of power.
The President assumed that his son would be treated fairly like any other first time offender.
You’re aware Biden is in charge of the DOJ right?
So he’s admitting his DOJ was fucked up and acting in bad faith…
But rather than at any point since he realized that, he’s choosing to only save his son and still not do any actual justice reform?
A regular person saving their son, ok. We get it
The literal one person able to save millions of sons? He should do actual reform.
He’d save his own son in the process too.
Like, you realize there’s a shit ton of open judicial seats Biden is about to let trump seat as soon as he comes into office right?
Are you implying Biden appointed such shit people to lead the DOJ that he now trusts Trump’s judgement more?
Like I said:
Like, if “nothing matters” why isn’t Biden doing more? Why isn’t he even appointing all the empty judges seats before Trump can?
But if be really surprised if anyone actually explains why Biden not even appointing 30 judges is ok, let alone why the Senate not confirming 42 is bad.
Biden allowed the prosecution of Hunter to avoid the appearance of not being neutral.
Now that Trump has won and a) is openly talking about pardoning anyone and everyone and b) wanting to prosecute his enemies list, it 100% makes sense to beat him to the punch and pardon Hunter.
If Kamala had won, he would have let it all stand.
Biden allowed the prosecution of Hunter to avoid the appearance of not being neutral
But the reality is he wasnt neutral…
So, when you portray a situation falsely because you know the blowback would hurt your chances in an upcoming election (Biden was the candidate then)
That is commonly referred to:
Being a fucking liar
And when you do that for something everyone knows you’re lying about, that’s going to hurt turnout for the entire party, even if you do eventually shuffle off the stage before the election.
You may be 100% of with the only two parties only running liars
But if you want a way to make Dems able to win again, fight for honest authentic candidates who will help Americans.
You’ll never find a neoliberal as good as lying as a Republican. So why play that game.
If Kamala had won, he would have let it all stand.
My opinion is obviously he wouldn’t have. I’m not sure why your preventing your opinion as a fact, or even why you still think the next president somehow controls sentencing…
Like, you get that right?
That the entire premise for your argument about why this is ok has no factual basis?
If you think I’m wrong, by all means explain how the incoming president co trolls that, and how Biden wasn’t able to control it now for a fair result and not an all or nothing like you’re presenting
Oh, he definitely wasn’t neutral, no father could be, that’s why I say he was trying to avoid the APPEARANCE of not being neutral. ;)
Now that Trump has won and is talking crazy shit, there’s no need to maintain appearances.
So, when you portray a situation falsely because you know the blowback would hurt your chances in an upcoming election (Biden was the candidate then)
Are you seriously upset that Biden pardoned his son’s charges of checking the no box to the do you use drugs question on his firearm application. And paying his taxes late?
That’s gotta be every single weed smoker in a recreational state.
And when you do that for something everyone knows you’re lying about, that’s going to hurt turnout for the entire party, even if you do eventually shuffle off the stage before the election.
Oh he shuffled off stage all right. Right before the democratic wolve party beat him with a broomstick and replaced him with a pinata.
Biden isn’t in charge of the DOJ…
Biden is in charge of the person in charge of the DoJ.
In charge of him in what way?
If Kamala had won, Hunter would not have been pardoned.
Biden pardoned him because of all the bullshit pardons Trump is talking about.
“You know what, fine, fuck it, Hunter gets a pardon.”
So your version is like this?
Biden:
I’m tired of rich privileged people never being held accountable, I’ll show them by not allowing my rich privileged son to be held accountable! Now the wealthy from either party isn’t being held accountable, which is obviously going to be celebrated by the poor’s because both groups of rich and powerful people are unaccountable!
Because that just sounds unbelievable , so I don’t think that’s what you meant
But man, I can’t think of a single other option.
Like, if it’s to just rub in republicans faces…
They’d hate it more if we dont give them the 42 open federal judicial seats than Bidens son
Or…
Crazy thought, Biden could do both?
Instead of only saving his son who is clearly and literally self admittedly guilty?
The Biden are never going to love you man. They’ll never know you’re name, they’ll never lose a second of sleep over your troubles.
Trump won’t either to be fair, but that doesn’t mean you have to spend your time defending. A different group of wealthy oligarchs who aren’t subject to the same rules as you and me.
No, my version is retributive.
“Oh, Trump won? Fuck it, Hunter gets a pardon.”
Biden doesnt exactly have a reputation of being keen on actual justice. Just demagogery, racism, and bribe taking disguised as justice. Are there worse crimes than genocide? – all for some campaign contributions.
Did he not spend his entire senate career beating a drum about being touch on crime, ito the right of republicans, imprisoning two generations of minority americans on flimsy no-victim crimes? Did he not call all the worst racists on the republican side his close friends? Didnt he campaign for them against democrats?
Seems more likely that it’s a preemptive guard against the retribution Trump has been loudly promising. When the next president vows to enact revenge on his political enemies, and your son has been branded a political enemy, you do what you can to try to prevent relatively minor offenses from becoming something more theatrical.
This is the obvious answer. Biden treated the situation as if his son would be treated the same as any other citizen. Instead they threw the book at him because he was the presidents son.
Why trust the system that lets Trump off the hook.
Literally fuck you I got mine. Which is why the cunts lost the election.
Exactly. Trump is about to pardon dozens/hundreds of treasonous terrorists (Jan 6th).
Honestly, I doubt he will pardon more than a small number people, most of the Jan6ers have nothing that will gain Trump if they are pardoned, and they have shown to be dangerous towards government and authority, these are not people an authoritarian government will want on the streets.
Past actions matter far, far less than future potential gains.
Trump will be back in office, he has won, he doesn’t need the Jan6ers anymore.
I am certain that he will pardon a few, to make it seem like he/the republicans care, but the majority will probably stay locked up.
And that’s why you should let me go, Your Honor
You can commit 34 felonies, as a treat.
If I wanted to operate on republican standards of integrity I’d be a republican.
You’re operating on Republican standards of integrity whether you want to or not, because nothing fucking matters anymore. That’s just the hand you’ve been dealt.
we’re only as good as the world lets us be, huh.
So this is his big Grand exit? He could do so much on the way out the door for the country but instead the senile old fuck only cares about his damn kid.
Still got over a month.
Minus the 2+ weeks they take for the holidays.
This is one trivial act.
Honestly? With the absolute thought crime aspect and the way the plea deal was handled, I don’t blame him one bit. There’s no public interest in locking up Hunter Biden.
There’s no public interest in locking a lot of people up, yet they still do.
Rules should be applied equally, regardless of who you or your parents are.
This rule should be disregarded equally.
Ya but he’s white and wealthy. That shits better than Teflon these days.
There’s no public interest in locking up Hunter Biden.
Nonsense. Theres a massive public interest in a privileged member of the political elite being held to the same legal standards and to the same due process as you and me.
That’s not the same legal standards. Tax charges that the IRS bends over backwards not to use and gun charges that are literally thought crime and also very rarely used.
This was the witch hunt the GOP cries wolf about. The original thing they were looking for was Ukrainian money deals.
For anyone else the IRS would have had a payment plan and the gun charges would have been a plea deal. But we go from politically motivated investigation to politically motivated judge rejecting the plea deal
What about this is the same due process we would have?
Yeah, I don’t see any public interest involved at all when it comes to the issue of presidents using their power to get their relatives off jail time. I don’t think it undermines the sense of justice and equality that all citizens are supposed to have if the “first among equal citizens” can get their crackhead middle ages son off of already lenient legal consequences for actions that others are serving hard time for. Not at all a conspicuous legal hole that undermines the concept of the rule of law, and definitely not open to abuse.
That was part of the problem. The judge bowed to political pressure and rejected a completely normal plea deal to throw the book at the guy instead.
If you ask me the pardon power isn’t used nearly enough.
Judges do that all the time. Hunter Biden was the 50+ year old son of one of the most powerful people in the country. Not some 22 year old street kid from a poor district.
Yeah well they shouldn’t.
They absolutely should.
This isn’t some small point, either. Your view validates mandatory minimum sentencing and other systemically racist structures.
Judges should make judgments. It’s literally the job title. A judge is someone you’re supposed to be able to trust to take into account all the human stuff and make decisions based off it.
You want a judge that makes the judgment call that a plea deal is okay? Fine.
You want a judge that throws away a plea deal they think is too light? Fine.
You want a judge that adds up minimum sentences and could be replaced by a computer? Not fine.
Yeah sure. And how many scandals are we seeing about judges? It’s obviously not fine. This isn’t the 1800’s any more and we need to stop giving someone that much power. If a plea deal is done between the state and a defendant them the judge’s only role should be to make sure the defendant isn’t being taken advantage of. The state hardly needs protection here and the precedent for political interference in the judicial system is really not okay.
Life isn’t a Hollywood movie where the judge is some all knowing good intentioned white guy that always does the right thing. Our founding fathers understood this, that’s why they gave us what protections they could. Now over 200 years later we’ve forgotten it all. We even have debtor’s prison back, specifically with the help of the people you say are supposed to uphold trust in law and order.
At this point I would rather a computer than read one more Pro Publica story about a judge taking kickbacks to send kids to torture camps.
You’re complaining about corruption in elected positions, and want to replace it by giving more power to the DA, or to remove the human aspect and give everything over a computer assigning mandatory minimums that only ever seem to go up.
If you have a problem with corruption, you fight the corruption. You don’t consolidate power into even fewer hands, with no mercy(not that there is much of that in the first place.)
The founding fathers were a bunch of rich white dudes, that almost to a one, fail every moral standard today. Some of them would and were considered assholes in their own time. Acting like they were incredibly thoughtful/wise elder statesmen is the only Hollywood trope either one of us has brought up. Part of the protections they did try and put into place was to spread power out, and make those positions ones that elected. You know, the stuff you want to remove?
Actually judges can and should call foul on plea deals that are poorly worded so as to allow future violations of tax law.
A violation is a violation. A plea deal can’t make a future act not a crime. That’s completely nonsense.
Exactly, which is why the judge objected to plea deal. Are you following now?
Donald Trump has a hitlist. Hunter is on that list. I don’t think he deserves the pardon, but he needs it. Republicans will crucify him given the chance. I don’t really want to see Republicans holding his head up on a pike for all to see, as much as they’d love that.
I am pretty sure that Trump would have had that man killed in prison. In my books his dad did the right thing, fuck the optics.
I just made a post commenting that it’s a national security risk to have a former president’s family member incarcerated or under prosecution by the DoJ as Trump is planning to run it. He flat out said he’s planning to use the DoJ to incarcerate political rivals.
It’s like
“Hey, Joe, we have your son. You need to tell me / support me / help me with [undermining institutions of democracy and our allies], or else.”
If you switch some of those names around it’s sounds just like four years ago when Trump was leaving office…
You get that, right?
Like, Hunter was a crackhead that lied to get a gun, and then they abandoned the gun in a trashcan like, right next to a school, and then said when they went back for it, someone had taken it
Hunter is not some innocent child. He’s a crackhead in his 50s who has lived a life of luxury free of consequences due to political connections.
Don’t forget Biden wrote the 92 crime bill, he’s ruined innumerable lives of actual children because of that.
If you can’t see the hypocrisy, you probably don’t understand why 1/3 of voters dont vote.
It’s a national security risk to give custody of the former president’s son to Donald Trump.
The idea right now is to give Trump less avenues of control over institutions of democracy, and that includes a former law abiding president, his pulpit, and his classified knowledge.
Can you see that?
It’s a national security risk to give custody of the former president’s son to Donald Trump
You replied to me a couple times saying that, without ever explaining how you think that’s true…
You can’t just repeat nonsense over and over and it becomes true eventually
His situation is over publicized, so he can’t have a fair case. I agree. He sounds like a piece of shit. There’s a reason there’s not supposed to be cameras in court, though.
His situation is over publicized
His situation is published…
His auto biography provides the whole story, there’s hard evidence to line up when the gun was bought, rehab records for drug use…
He’s guilty. I dont think he’s even tried to deny it…
And you realize your logic could be applied to people like Rudy, Mike Pillow, and trump himself?
You’re inventing reasons why Hunter should escape consequences, but the thing is anything you come up with, can be applied to republicans in the exact same way.
Seriously. Before you try to excuse his behavior, replace it with “Don Jr” and think about if you still think it’s a good reason.
Maybe you can? Maybe your consistent on anyone born into the ruling wealthy class gets zero consequences. But lots more people only want it for their “team”.
So I’m hoping changing the name helps you understand.
You’ve lost sight of why Biden pardoned Hunter. It had nothing at all to do with the merits of case of the interests of criminal justice. It had to do with preserving the institutions of democracy for the immediate years to come.
You can’t “both sides” this one.
r. It had nothing at all to do with the merits of case of the interests of criminal justice. It had to do with preserving the institutions of democracy for the immediate years to come.
You think to do that, Biden’s one and only course of action was pardoning his soon, and now it’s mission fucking accomplished?
No. They quite literally cannot get that. They will find a way to contort themselves into believing that Biden is a responsible dignified statesman who is forced into every stupid, evil or corrupt thing he does, up to and including genocide.
Just in case any future presidents need a precedent for this kinda stuff.
If you think trump regarded precedent at all, i have a bridge to sell you.
Maybe Biden should make Hunter ambassador to France for the rest of the year
Yea like Ford’s pardon of Nixon, you mean those precedents?
My hope of hopes is that this triggers a challenge and redefinition (and limitation) of presidential pardon powers.
Buuuutt… I am not confident things would go in any way toward that direction. Probably the opposite. I can imagine it being redefined to some legally egregious bullshit, as is the custom of these times.
Trump is gonna wind up with a stamp that reads “Presidential Pardon” and uses it with the abandon of a 3-year-old with a sticker book. He’s going to have a line of donors, stamping foreheads like it’s his own Ash Wednesday.Braindead take of the day.
Trump plans to wield the DOJ as a weapon.
You want to give custody of the former president’s son to Trump’s DOJ?
It’ll be another perfect phone call.
“Hey, Joe, we have your son…”
This has fuck all to do with the merits of the case or the interests of justice. This is a national security move.
It would be a reckless dereliction of loyalty to the country for Biden not to issue this pardon, given what it very likely to come.
I have so many thoughts.
Well, first - I posted this yesterday, so it can’t possibly be the brain dead take of the day.
And second, my comment is a sardonic statement that discusses the need for reform of how the U.S. does presidential pardons. It pivots to imply the Supreme Court will do the exact wrong thing if someone sued about this, and implies Trump will imitate the Catholic Church, re: forgiving sins. It makes no mention of the DOJ, nor my thoughts of how Trump plans to use it, or even whether I think this pardon is valid.
So, if you’re going to incorrectly insult me, could you at least stay on topic?But, but isn’t Hunter an example of Trump weaponizing the DOJ?
No, it is fucking not. It is an example of the Republican Party weaponizing the media and grabbing any lever they can get their hands on, be it congressional investigations or friendly DA’s, to create a primetime cable TV media circus in much the same fashion they weaponized the media against Hillary before Trump had political aspirations, and even against her husband in the 90’s. If it was merely the DOJ being weaponized, Hunter Biden’s dick pics wouldn’t have been shown to congress. The DOJ is secondary. If the DOJ was primary, we’d never hear about the trial, and it wouldn’t go on for years in full view of the press.
So, no. But it’s close enough that if you didn’t lead with an insult, I’d just shrug it off.And what would Trump need with Biden so much that keeping his son as a political prisoner would come in handy?
Joe is out of politics. I’m pretty sure most people forgot he was president until yesterday. Yeah, yeah, currently at the wheel, but after he gets on that Amtrak in January, he’s out. I honestly don’t know how he could be of any help or support to the republicans. Maybe they could put him on stage as a set piece somewhere, but then he’s just a sad old man that reminds everyone that the Republican Party will throw your kid in jail, but we already fucking knew that because of the migrant kids in dog kennels.And third - while I don’t disagree that the DOJ will be used punitively, you don’t seem like the kind of person I’d publicly agree with.
You lead with an insult because you can’t interact with humans normally. Following, what’s the point of the insult? Is there merit to it? Do you prove that whatever you think you read was “the braindead [sic] take” of yesterday? It looks like you switch topics and talk about something I didn’t discuss.
Which really seems more like you just have thoughts you want to share and cannot find an appropriate way to bring them up.Fuck, dude. If you’re going to try to fight the good fight, could you do better in how you go about it?
Finally.
You’ll note I’ve not expressed thoughts about Hunter. Honestly, I don’t have clear thoughts on the matter. I think we should uphold rule of law. But I also think that’s bullshit given how inequitably the law is applied. I think that Hunter is a victim. Lots of parts of his story seem very much like other forces were involved than only his own bad choices. And I wouldn’t want Hunter in prison for a crime that rarely sees prison.
My ‘best’ thought about Hunter right now is that I think Joe should have waited until sentencing to see if the punishment was in line with other convictions of this type. If it was, then let the skewed and politicized rule of law prevail, and if it’s not, then step in.Irrespective of this news story, but perhaps because of it, we may see a legal review of presidential pardon powers., and I welcome that.
Which is what the entirety of my first comment was about. Pardon powers are yet another area of the U.S. government that mostly runs on the honor system, and that is clearly not adequate anymore, lest we see a scenario as heinous as the joke scenario I outlined.No one has any fucking nuance anymore, and must always “win” everything at any cost, up to and including completely disregarding morals and legal conventions, and that’s why every law, every email, and every online comment has to be a damned novel, full of definitions, trapping edge cases, and strict prognostications, because someone, somewhere, has got to be ‘that guy’ and ruin the fun.
All the other cases where they sentenced someone with a federal gun charge for lying on the form were plea deals. ABC said they couldn’t find any instances of someone being charged and convicted on that charge alone. You can’t say this wasn’t a politically motivated prosecution when the charge has never been used that way before.
Dem voters for about 20 years:
We need regulations!
Moderates:
No, just enforce what we have! Stop asking for what we need!
Also moderatess:
Are you nuts?! We can’t enforce the rules when our side break them!!
As liberals brush it off as if there isn’t a 2 tiered justice system in the US.
This isn’t about justice this is about national security, about who has custody of the former president’s son.
This is to avoid a kidnapping and ransom.
Liberal here, there is definitely a 2 tiered justice system in the US what are you even talking about
Our disagreement is over the idea that somehow the billionaire with an army of lawyers, who appointed half the judges his cases are in front of, and has been given every conceivable affordance and courtesy, is anywhere other than the top of the privileged tier.
Democrats aren’t exactly being a role model right now, but a lot of them are probably covering the asses of their own since Republicans are so blind by fascistic rage that they’re going to put a lot of innocent heads on pikes.
You almost have it.
Let’s say they don’t pardon Hunter.
Fast forward a couple months to another “perfect” Trump phone call.
“Hey, Joe, we have your son. Here’s what you’re doing to say / do / tell me…”
Who or what is going to stop them from doing that anyway? It’s not like the rule of law will mean anything with all 3 branches under Republican majority control. The enforced disappearance and extortion that you’re implying isn’t going to be averted by a measly pardon given by what will become the opposition party. Pardoning Hunter is not guaranteed to yield any material exemption for him with the guard changing, but it does represent to the public that Democrats consider those who are close to them to be exempt from the rule of law when the law is applicable. It’s both bad optics and likely futile. Biden pardoned him on the slim chance Hunter can navigate past double jeopardy or whatever new undoing of foundational legal precedent the Republicans decide to unleash out of (generally misplaced) vindictiveness.
This thread reads like a satire of how Democrats are happy to sink lower and lower while using the GOP as an excuse.
Too bad they don’t sink lower when prosecuting trump for insurrection.
That would actually be going higher.
Yeah. I’m willing to say when I see my far-preferred party doing something I consider unethical, but I also recognize their game theory and why the current circumstances would lead them to make myopic decisions in the interest of short-term survival and at the cost of long-term reputation and public perception.
What all they gonna talk about?!
All the federal judicial seats Biden is about to leave open for trump?
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It’s very brave of you to explicitly blame the mentally challenged for the problems in society. I’m sure you’re familiar with the historical precedent for that ideology?
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Why do so many Biden supporter use the same slurs as trump supporters?
I’m legitimately asking because it’s frighteningly common. And for some reason ever since 2016 the neoliberals all have supporters who act like Trump’s.
THAT’S what you object to in their comment? You’re part of the problem.
…
I don’t think this will work, but I’ll give it a shot.
Say someone says crack should be mandatory, pants are outlawed, and birds can only fly on Tuesdays.
If someone explains how difficult it would be to enforce that birds only fly on Tuesdays, it does not mean that they also want mandatory crack and no pants for anyone.
It just means the person picked one thing to talk about. Instead of attempting to explain multiple things at once.
Does it make sense to you now?
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So his lame duck period is even more full-throated support for Israel and pardoning his own failson. He could, like, do anything at all that helps people. Any sort of progressive, popular idea that would actually benefit Americans. Hell, even if he failed it would do wonders for his legacy. He could try to do something, anything, to start making up for dragging down the entire party by refusing to drop out earlier, or allow for an actual primary. But nah. Pardons for Hunter.
If he or the other ghouls wanted to do anything that benefits working people they would have done it when they could get votes for it.
He could, like, do anything at all that helps people.
You’d think the minimum would be “not leave federal judicial picks open” with him having a D senate this whole time…
https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/judicial-vacancies/current-judicial-vacancies
Sitting at 42 trump will get to seat if they don’t get their shit together. Bidens only nominated 12, so it’s almost impossible all 42 gets seated.
Its not the first time dems look indistinguishable from republicans (who are fascists) on Joe’s watch, is it.
Biden is a guy who participated in obvious war crimes that 88% of his party didnt support-- as a democrat… And imperiously ignored the key issues of the campaign. Of course he’s going to pardon his shitty d-bag lobbyist son on the way out the door. Biden has lowered the bar for his party, for democracy, and for the entire western world order straight through the floor and deep into bedrock. We’ll need some sort of engineering miracle to ever even raise the bar up to ground level, much less hold it any higher anytime soon.
Most of the country clearly stated that they don’t give a fuck about the law. Why should Biden insist on crucifying his son on some cringe gun ownership violation, while the government gets stacked with criminals? and you’re going to equate this to republicans? with Trump pardoning all his buddy cronies who committed crimes on his behalf? The criminal elect who tried to steal the 2020 election? Get the fuck out of here
Why should Biden insist on crucifying his son on some cringe gun ownership violation
He’s not “crucifying his son”. His son is guilty of tax and gun crimes he clearly committed. If everyone lied on every government form, we couldnt have a country now could we.
Get the fuck out of here
Try to make me, troll.
Good job ignoring most of my response while pretending you responded to anything of substance. Clown
But Biden said he was the justice guy and he would not intervene!
All the excuses to pardon Hunter out of “fear of Trump” could be used to excuse things that actually helped the public
Well that’s a robust fuck you to republicans.
Yikes. This is not going to go over well.
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