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Fun fact: nearly 40% of all foodborne illnesses were caused by raw milk consumption. Pasteurization has reduced that number down to less than 1%, except in places where raw milk consumption is still allowed.
Been only buying organic milk for 10+ years now out of preference, it stays fresh for much longer than normal milk. This is because USDA Organic milk is ultra-pasteurized in almost the same way as shelf-stable milk.
I searched and found this article and they reported that there’s virtually no difference in nutrients between the options:
https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/is-ultra-pasteurized-milk-bad/
So if all the nutrients are the same, the only difference in less pasteurization is more bacteria. Fuck that!
I think it definitely affects the taste though doesn’t it? I prefer the organic ones that are vat pasteurized due to that reason, ultra feels sweeter to me.
It pretty much always tastes like good fresh milk to me
Legal in the UK, fucking read a book.
Under certain conditions, and it still poses a risk as the proper labeling of it suggests.
The NLH has some literature on the unnecessary amount of people that are made sick, and some that have died as a result of consuming raw milk.
If you want to believe it’s harmless, and consume it despite warnings, you are free to do so. But I can’t in good conscience allow you to misinform people without due diligence. Now everyone can weigh the risks after having been given both sides of the argument.
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Raw milk is not safe by any standard. Removed for misinformation.
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What’s the point though. I don’t eat raw meat or raw eggs so why would I eat raw milk. If it contains protein and fat then my nutritional needs are satisfied - simple as that really
The opinion of a person apparently never had steak tartar, sashimi, met, whisky sours made properly, or eggs over easy is pretty much worthless.
I eat fried eggs over easy most days of the week. I’ve had sushi and sashimi multiple times. Never had steak tartar and I don’t drink anymore though.
Haven’t heard of runny egg yolk posing the same risk of containing harmful bacteria as raw milk.
Steak tartar and sushi fish have to come from certified producers as far as i know. Surely raw milk is the same.
But I doubt anyone eats those things every day of the week, throughout the day, like they do with milk.
Legal vs. Illegal is not the same as Safe vs. Unsafe.
just look at all those dead englishmen
Let them. Darwin wins.
Unfortunately it’s not that simple. Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread. It’s never the risk-accepters that suffer most. It’s always the sick, the poor, the very young and the very old, and the healthcare workers who suffer. The people who refused to get vaccines or take even basic precautions with COVID killed a lot of people, while the vast majority of those assholes survived.
Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread.
Every single person that contracts the HPAI H5N1 virus is a few billion chances for the virus to mutate and generate a strain that is able to spread from person to person. These people are throwing dice over and over and when they come up snake eyes, we are all going to lose.
But then the fault is obviously DEI, because it made the birds gay or something…
A coworker of mine (African American) lost three cousins to COVID. Minorities are less likely to have good healthcare or the resources to pay out of pocket when necessary. I’m mostly on team Darwin too but I agree it’s not just the idiots that will get hurt. The way things are going schools might even start teaching that raw milk isn’t that harmful.
And when more parents start giving their kids raw milk, what then?
Forcing kids to eat dangerous food is child abuse.
Can anyone explain to me why conservatives love raw milk so much? Is it like more profitable or something? Why the hell does this keep coming up?
Science-denying anti-intellectualism mixed with “you can’t tell me what to do!”
Exactly. And we should exploit that by telling them it’s not safe to consume Arsenic or lick a lead bar multiple times a day, every day. They’ll be like, “oh yeah! watch me lib tard!”. And the population will shrink. :)
How about a glass of Hemlock juice? All those intellectuals and “city doctors” will try to get you away from that stuff, so it must be good!
Socrates was even said to have drank it!
Hey, it turns out that lead acetate is a natural, calorie-free, sweetener! In fact, the ancient Romans used it. The FDA doesn’t want you to use this because they’re in bed with Big Sugar and the Splenda people.
I keep myself healthy with a nice refreshing glass of atomic healing elixir (radium solution) and you should too! Ignore the FDA banning it a couple decades back for giving people radiation/heavy metal poisoning.
Ah yes. I patiently await the return of Radium Revigorators! They’re hard to find these days.
They’re like toddlers. You tell them they shouldn’t and they will do everything in their power to do it anyways. They don’t believe in science so everything is a “radical far left jewish space laser” conspiracy to take away their freedumbs.
As far as I can tell: It’s partially the same shit as the anti vaccine mixed with being angry about government regulations.
A lot of the anecdotes I’ve heard about raw.milk being safe, are from small farms with few dairy cows.
My upper middle class family in Houston drinks it all the time. Yes they’re all die hard conservatives.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I think it’s also from ideas of “return to tradition” and a veneration of a kind of rural lifestyle that largely doesn’t exist anymore. My extended family are farmers and even they got out of livestock when I was really young because there’s not enough profit except at obscene scale. But milk fresh from the cow was a thing I grew up hearing about from cousins, it was apparently viewed as safe enough for the older kids as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
Edit: also some of them are operating under the mistaken idea that raw milk is healthier or more nutritious (it’s not), or that or tastes better (actually possible, I actually heard it tasted slightly better as a kid).
Return to tradition is not the whole story.
For conservatives, power is wielded or power is seceded. In a government that you don’t trust, that’s forcing you to drink pasteurized milk, the idea of raw milk is kind of that “the government is hiding something from us” and not “the government is protecting us”. While there is some overlap between “the government can’t be trusted with milk” with “the government can be trusted with immigrants”, for the most part they aren’t necessarily the same people but they are cut from the same cloth.
They don’t want the government to control them. The government controls other people.
It’s why people like RFK are so dangerous because he now has the power to remove many of the safety nets we have grown accustomed to. Instead of Trump’s first term where COVID was downplayed, we won’t even test for avian flu. We won’t even research cures.
Not only that, given the sheer kowtowing media outlets are doing we likely will have challenges reading outbreaks in other countries.
This is not an exaggeration. We are in fascism today.
When consuming raw milk directly from your own cow its a lot safer than anything related to shipping, holding and selling it. Raw milk always contains bacteria and other microbes. These take time to grow so drinking it immediately doesn’t give them time to grow. But any amount of time between that allows them to go crazy. So it can be safe to drink raw milk in the old method where it came directly from your own cow with no time between. Its anything with scale that causes all the issues.
as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
I think you’re hit the nail on the head. There’s a concept in engineering (Hyrum’s Law) that where systems interface with each other (e.g. software), the design of one will ultimately rely on every aspect of the other, intentional or otherwise. In the case of industrially produced milk, pasteurization permits a relatively high degree of filth on the supply side when compared to practices in the EU or UK (they ship more raw product). So, it stands to reason that this isn’t just likely but exactly what’s going on since everyone can get away with it.
It’s the hip new way to feel rebellious and tell the government “you can’t tell me what to do” while the government fucks them over and steals their future for a quick pay day.
It’s a carefully orchestrated distraction.
My mother’s been on the “natural health” train for a while now and claims that pasteurizing milk removes most of the nutrients (verifiably false). No amount of my protesting or pointing her towards sources for the contrary have convinced her to stop consuming that garbage.
It’s anti vax and anti regulation so basically a maga wet dream. Squeeze cow, milk, ta da. In reality to the other 3/4 of humanity it’s a microbial breeding ground for unfiltered mutations and diseases because you’re just trusting the entire food chain leading up to the cow has been healthy and unmutated.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk. It’s like boiling water before drinking vs drinking from a puddle.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk
Not filtering. You heat the milk. And it’ll do nothing to “mutations.” It suppresses bacteria and at least some viruses. If you double-pasteurize, it’ll also suppress bacterial spores.
The only half reasonable argument I’ve seen is that requiring pasteurisation (supposedly) makes it difficult for small dairy farms that want to sell direct to consumer, and forces them to sell to large milk companies for a far lower price. I have no idea how valid that argument is.
I don’t think so. I remember that we bought milk directly from the farm as a kid (Germany, so experiences may vary), but it always got collected in a big container that automatically pasteurized it during storage. Every farm had those, so they couldn’t have been that expensive.
If no one else has mentioned it, there are also those idiotic fascists (but I repeat myself) that were/are big on guzzling milk to show how “superior” they are because lactose intolerance is fairly common, but even more common among non-whites.
Extra Nazi points if it’s raw milk, maybe?
Damn Empire milk-drinkers. A True Nord is raised on mead straight from their momma’s teat.
Brawndo hasn’t been invented yet.
The conscription of the granola moms.
I think it’s just that it’s a regulation, and regulation bad. I don’t want the gunment telling me I can’t drink raw milk. No, fools, the government doesn’t want people selling raw milk.
A lot of the US understands capitalism as purchasing choices at the store. Therefore if I can buy more stuff at the store I’m more free. Regulation bad.
This is handy for actual capitalist that want to abuse their workers and their customers by selling poison or watered down milk with plaster of Paris for color and liquified calf brains for texture miles from cows that are fed sawdust and literally dying. 👈 Why we regular milk now because this is all literally what was occuring.
Regression. World is scary. Milk brought safety during infancy and the limbic system remembers.
Crying and shitting themselves not good enough?
I think it’s one of the easiest ways they can “stick it to the man”.
Let them get their raw milk then?
Kids shouldn’t die because their parents are idiots.
The rare salient point.
The frightening thing is that there are a bunch of “YEAH! KILL THOSE KIDS!” people elsewhere in the thread.
honestly im at a point politically, where i think that it needs to happen to be able to knock sense into people.
Thats it! Its not that we rejoice in their dead kids or some shit, but they just wont listen unless theyre personally effected
it’s eugenics, but legal, why shouldn’t we? Clearly letting them live up till now hasn’t served them well.
I mean if they grow up to be MAGA…….
/s
They might be kind of doomed anyway.
Yes they should. Children of profound idiots don’t DESERVE to die, but no one should be surprised when they eat lye or invest in 401k. Misunderstand eveything.
Pathogens don’t care whether or not you spread them to other people who don’t drink raw milk, I’m afraid.
And people who care, actually do things like get vaccines, and believe doctors.
Unless they can’t, some people are immunocompromised. The world is more complicated than you think, so try thinking instead of reacting.
Well, I get that. And at this point, I’m sicking of trying to keep people from setting the house on fire, while they are dousing themselves with gasoline.
You are living in the same house
Don’t even bother. They think you can vaccinate against bacteria. And they’ve doubled down on it three times now.
Vaccines can be developed for bacterial or viral infections. As explained here the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), vaccines are used to prevent, rather than treat, infection, “working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease.” Vaccines mimic an infection, causing the body to produce antibodies and defensive white blood cells, in order to help develop immunity.
Several vaccines against extracellular bacteria have been developed in the past and are still used successfully today, e.g., vaccines against tetanus, pertussis, and diphtheria. However, while induction of antibody production is usually sufficient for protection against extracellular bacteria, vaccination against intracellular bacteria is much more difficult because effective defense against these pathogens requires T cell-mediated responses, particularly the activation of cytotoxic CD8+ T cells. These responses are usually not efficiently elicited by immunization with non-living whole cell antigens or subunit vaccines, so that other antigen delivery strategies are required.
There isn’t an available bird flu vaccine that we could manufacture fast enough to make it available even if we started right now. This is assuming that they let us have it instead of telling us to tough it out and take some vitamin C.
There are actually several already ready to go, just not done because… Well, Bird Flu hasn’t made the jump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N1_vaccine
And, as long as the civilize nations of the world keep doing the rational thing, they’ll be able to limit the damage to just the US.
You didn’t even read that, did you?
H5N1 continually mutates, meaning vaccines based on current samples of avian H5N1 cannot be depended upon to work in the case of a future pandemic of H5N1. While there can be some cross-protection against related flu strains, the best protection would be from a vaccine specifically produced for any future pandemic flu virus strain. Daniel R. Lucey, co-director of the Biohazardous Threats and Emerging Diseases graduate program at Georgetown University, has made this point, “There is no H5N1 pandemic so there can be no pandemic vaccine.”[34] However, “pre-pandemic vaccines” have been created; are being refined and tested; and do have some promise both in furthering research and preparedness for the next pandemic.[35] Vaccine manufacturing companies are being funded to increase flexible capacity so that if a pandemic vaccine is needed, facilities will be available for rapid production of large amounts of a vaccine specific to a new pandemic strain.[36]
There is no guarantee that any “pre-pandemic” vaccines will work.
But then, you think you can vaccinate against bacteria…
You can’t vaccinate against pneumonia?
Lol, k.
No. No you can’t. Again, you really do not understand how any of this works. Pneumonia isn’t even a cause, it’s a symptom. I can be caused by fungi, viruses or bacteria. Saying you can vaccinate against pneumonia is like saying you can vaccinate against a runny nose. That’s literally not how anything works.
But please do keep digging.
Please tell me about the salmonella and e. coli vaccines.
I dunno if we have them, because they are both only transmissible via tainted food or water. And, well, if you don’t drink or eat tainted food, you wont really have to worry, now will you?
You don’t know that you can’t have a vaccine against bacteria?
Then maybe you’re out of your depth here.
Pneumonococcal vaccine doesn’t exist?
Dude, seriously stop digging. Vaccination is for viruses, not bacteria.
I get that you really love your raw milk, but that doesn’t entitle you to just make shit up.
I think that’s their point. Just let them be adults and decide. I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else. What I don’t understand is why the Democrats or people on the left haven’t seen this stuff for what it is. Also there’s no counter to this strategy. It’s like a weird game theory situation where one group is knows game theory and the other side knows how to play checkers
I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else.
That much is true. Its a proxy for industry de-regulation.
I’m all for people getting the raw milk they demand, because I hope it will lead to a quick demise.
Problem is, if they acquire a novel virus, they can basically send us into another pandemic.
This kind of crap hurts everyone.
Honestly?
It would not be a bad thing, if that were to happen in the US. Then, we wouldn’t be able to fuck over other countries, due to a severe lack of manpower.
Um, no thanks to that, thank you very much.
If you think something with a fatality rate of ~52% would be a good thing? Not sure what to do with that…and there is no fucking way something like that would stay within our borders in any case.
I’d say the 52% likely overlaps greatly with the 49% that created the situation.
If only. Sadly, that’s not how it works.
Adult implies mental competency.
The non raw milk people should market their milk on the carton with
Death and Disease Free
Big Dairy would probably mark everything up, selling pasteurization as a premium feature.
The flu in general is great at swapping proteins with other strains many of which are extant in the population right now. Every human bird flu infection of which there are presently few is a chance for highly pathogenic bird flu to make a version that is more transmissible which might yet retain its present greater than covid lethality. If this happens millions could die among them the most vulnerable including the old and those with auto immune disorders. Most of these folks who would die don’t themselves drink raw milk for obvious reasons.
Well, thankfully, civilized nations around the globe will be able to contain the damage to mostly just the fascist Imperial States of America.
No they won’t be able to. There is no tested and mass produced vaccine as of yet. There is no guarantee that a vaccine vs the present bird flu will work against what idiots brew up. Even if the experimental vaccines we have in the pipe are functional against the strain that emerges there is no reason to believe that everyone especially the poorer nations shall be able to manufacture enough fast enough to prevent widespread death.
Covid did have the silver lining of really jump-starting science and medicine in this regard. I shudder to think how the viciously stupid and hateful donvict administration will handle something like bird flu, even with these great tools we now have.
There is not a chance of that happening.
People in America also thought that Covid was just something “over there” when it started in China, too. That’s not how disease works.
That’s because the entire apparatus ton handle it was dismantled by the Trump.
Other nations weren’t so stupid.
Regulators Say It’s Dangerous.
Not for long, they won’t, because they won’t be allowed to.
Because they won’t exist.
If they die they die. It’s a risk I’m willing to take
Except they’re also giving it to their kids, who are far more susceptible to the diseases
Ok, so they get to watch their kids die at their own hands, and then head off to jail. Problem seems to be fixing itself.
I said what I said
What you said is horrible and you should feel horrible.
But your willing to sacrifice children’s lives for your own political goals is noted. Israel does something similar.
They aren’t responsible for other peoples kids.
You really are not connecting A and B here.
They said there should be a general strike. I said to them that 40% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, meaning that missing work means not being able to feed and house their kids.
They said they can just take their kids to a soup kitchen. Which, and I don’t know how to make this any clearer to you, will not stop their kids from getting taken away from them because they’re homeless.
So you’re right, they aren’t responsible for other people’s kids and neither are you. You just both expect people to sacrifice them anyway.
Did you reply in the wrong chain? I can’t find where either of you said those things.
look bro, would i push for a law that allows raw milk to be sold? Probably not, if they push one, am i going to stop them just because they might end up killing people? Also no, collateral damage is still damage, and we’re so far gone it’s not gonna improve much at this point.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed, which is child abuse.
Both of you keep trying to change the subject.
And when that kid grows up to be a nazi youth and is ushering you into a death camp???
Why are you assuming that? Do you think fascism is a genetic trait? Which gene is the fascism gene?
Are your politics the same as your parents? Because I sure as fuck am not a Zionist like my father was.
I don’t give a fuck about their kids.
Not all kids grown in a Republican household turn out to be Republicans.
Especially the ones raised on raw milk.
And without vaccinations.
Like me!
Same.
No one is worried they are gonna turn out republican. This next generation is going to turn out nazi.
Yeah but they might
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Kids are innocent, regardless of how shitty the parents are.
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Right, but what does that have to do with children drinking milk?
Human beings deserve to live. It’s not our call to make whether we just save good people, just that we try to save people. Anything less isn’t enough.
We can’t play God.
I can’t entirely agree with this. Their kids don’t deserve to suffer. But yeah, I kinda don’t have a whole lot of hope for them.
Suffer not the Republican lest he taketh thine liberty
At least this time the disease will stay confined to the stupid.
Isn’t it contagious
Tuberculosis is also carried in unpastuerised milk. The US currently has the largest outbreak in its history.
Yeah, in Kansas City. From what I’ve been able to track down, Patient Zero came back from a recent trip to the Federated States of Micronesia. Current infected rate reported hit 66 people, but that might be higher.
If you’re in the Midwest, brush up on symptoms to look for, and stay away from Nursing Homes and elementary schools if you’re vulnerable.
Bird flu? Human-to-human either isn’t happening, or is extremely rare, can’t remember.
For now. If it mutates to become more contagious without becoming less deadly, that becomes an everyone problem
Stupidity? Based on the election result, I would say yes.
You can at least get vaxed for tb.
That’s not how diseases work.
Why do these fucking morons always want the objectively worst thing? The absolute dumbest thing you can think of and they’re all for it. Why is the world like this now? I can’t fucking stand it. “Let’s get rid of the FDA and OSHA!” Like, what the fuck is this horse shit. This shouldn’t be allowed to happen! I’m legitimately losing my sanity more and more each day.
it’s because the government wants to fuck of us over duuude !! everything they say we should do opposite!! the government is a giant monolith and every human that works for them magically agrees to the same ideologies which force us to drink raw milk!! because they agreed pasteurized milk is good therefore it is bad !!
that’s really all they think
Because they know what milk is supposed to taste like. You clearly don’t.
You can go ahead and say “we.” You’re clearly one of them.
There ain’t a boot anyone on this shitty website won’t try swallow.
Demonstrably incorrect. For instance, Lemmy users seem to not find the boots you suckle palatable at all.
What’s wrong with the taste of pasteurized milk? Does the salmonella in the raw milk give it extra spiciness or something?
See this is what I mean. You have literally no idea what milk actually tastes like, just that sugar water sold in stores these days.
That’s not an answer.
Also, I don’t see any sugar listed here as an added ingredient, just the sugar that’s naturally in cow’s milk. You know cow’s milk naturally has sugar in it, right? Even the raw kind?
Is Müller lying to the British government?
That is absolutely an answer. You need to try it at least once in your life, you literally don’t know what you are talking about.
Your answer was based on the falsehood that the milk I drink has added sugar, which it does not.
So sure, it’s an answer, it’s just a lying answer.
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Let them drink that stuff by the gallons. It helps raising the average IQ.
I get it, but this is really going to disproportionately hurt kids. Maybe their parents are on board with this, maybe they’re just uninformed.
Unfortunately they are buying it for their kids too.
stop. don’t. come back…
help… police… murder
because charlie, they are all a bunch of nitwits
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98% certain this is Poe’s Law in action, but the ideas are stupid enough to merit removal.
Insert Gene Wilder pic here.
Yes, Poe’s law. I was trying to toe the line on satire and actual things I’ve actually heard conservatives say. Thanks for doing good work and keeping that junk to a minimum, even if my satire gets caught in the crossfire.
They are going to harm their own children, too, which is the real tragedy here.
Sorry but how the fuck are insurance companies OK with this? They hold extreme amounts of power over the US. They are going to have to do ridiculous amounts of payouts for hospital bills.
How the fuck are people’s life saving surgeries getting denied at pre-approval, but they are not denying people’s coverage for fucking drinking raw milk??
You haven’t heard? AI is going to automatically deny all those claims, problem solved.
Maybe if this takes off raw milk will show up on health questionnaires or be in the fine print as a pre existing condition
They don’t pay out the bills lol. I imagine they’ll work on dismantling the ACA/“Obamacare.” Insurance will cover nothing.
Same as every other money minded entity, if they speak out they’ll be shouted down or destroyed. Ethics don’t matter, number go up.
they can just outright deny them im guessing, the consumer bought it, knowingly.
And theyll somehow blame Dems
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Fascists always turn on each other.
Beautiful … the Darwin Awards are now coming to your grocery store
Let them drink raw milk
Cows are getting avian influenza. Farm workers are getting it from the chickens and cows. There is concern that people may eventually catch bird flu from raw milk. The more people get infected, the greater the odds that a mutation will develop that allows human to human transmission. Unfortunately, we may, yet again, have all of our lives and livelihoods threatened by people too ignorant to take even the most basic precautions for self preservation.
Conservatives Embrace Raw Milk
Not seeing the problem, here.
Regulators Say It’s Dangerous
…And? We need a little chlorine in our gene pool. If the dumbest and most ignorant segment of America wants to kill themselves, it’s an adult making an adult’s decision. It can only improve society if they do.
My only objection kicks in when kids end up in the cross hairs of that stupidity and ignorance.
Controversial, but the kids have to die for the idiot adults to learn their lesson.
It’s a tragedy because they have little to no agency. But these morons, like those who refuse vaccines, need to watch their kids suffer and die to feel the consequences for themselves to understand why safety regulations are written in blood.
Quite charitable of you to assume they would ever come to understand anything. From what I’ve seen, my money’s on them finding some way to blame the godless libs and not learning a darn thing.
I guess there’s 1 upside to the potential loss of school lunches?
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