I don’t understand why it never occurred to anyone that they could just change the times they do things instead of changing the clock
Pretty sure it did, and would lead to conversations like “Oh by the way boss, for the next 6 months I’ll be coming in an hour late. You guys are cool with flex time, right?”
Me: As long as you leave an hour later why do I give a shit.
Probably why I’m not the boss of anything.
Technically, that’s sorta what we do… We all agree to make everything one hour off, including the clock.
It would cause disruptions because of business hours inconsistently changing.
You know your suppliers business hours, they don’t change. The clock changes, but your supplier still opens at 9am, you know when you’re working they’re open.
If it were trivial to accomplish individually, then you could tell your boss that after the time change you’ll be coming into the office at 10am instead of 9am and negate any ill effects from the time change. If place of employment is cool with this, then you make this change right now. But most people have to conform to what the rest of their industry is doing.
…Right? Like, if you want daylight at the end of your work day, just start work earlier in the day.
Instead, we have the tyranny of night owls who cannot wake up at a decent hour wanting to move clock noon wildly away from solar noon just to pamper their solipsistic needs.
Potato tomato.
You wouldn’t doing the same thing either way so what difference does it make?
DST was established in the context of anemic government trying to show extensive reach/control over the economy at a time where it had very little (arguably it still does today but only because most governments have matured to represent their most powerful class). As if to say “We determine the clocks that industry schedules by”
You clearly have never been a farmer
farmers? the people who have to do things by daylight hours regardless what any authority around them counts as the time? they’re the ones that need daylight saved?
what?
Like I said, you clearly have never been a farmer
very convincing and condescending. now everyone reading is wholly swayed in favor of daylight savings. job well done. farmers need it because people who don’t want it clearly aren’t farmers. brilliant.
LOL explain how pigs and corn give a fuck about what time it is?
In Canada, one of the biggest farming provinces is also the only one that doesn’t have DST, and they seem to be ok. I think.
That province tried it for one year when it was a new idea, decided it was stupid, and stopped.
One of the few based things Sask has done. Add to the list: producing Diefenbaker, who appointed the first Indigenous Senator and gave all Indigenous people in Canada the right to vote, and Tommy Douglas, who instituted the first ever single payer universal healthcare program in ALL OF NORTH AMERICA in Sask. That then became the basis of the universal health care program we see in Canada today.
Too bad their current government is super regressive and like taking AmeriPol talking points instead of actual effective governance.
Yeah unfortunately none of that stuff was sustainable and that’s why we’re kinda fucked economically. They won’t grow some balls and end it, but they won’t fund it properly either, cause they can’t without making everyone even poorer.
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indigenous right to vote and universal healthcare are unsustainable and making everyone poor, and they need the balls to end it? what the fuck dude?
edit: just perused and yeah that’s a full blown nazi. nevermind to whatever they were going to reply with. blocked.
It was never about farming, it’s bad for farmers. The farming lobby fought it off for years before the Chamber of Commerce rammed it through, with big assists from the golf and bbq industries. Then Big Candy successfully lobbied to get it extended to include Halloween.
https://qz.com/daylight-savings-time-origin-business-farmers-bbq-golf-1851320679
This would be a Warhammer 40K thing.
On all ships of the Imperium, using complex mathematics and ancient tomes to achieve synchronisation across the galaxy and even inside the warp, the clocks are changed by one hour twice a year, in an elaborate ritual.
No one dares ask the reason behind it, but it must be done, to appease the machine god.Programmers and engineers everywhere agree. Fuck DST.
Oh boy, here I go posting my favorite YouTube video again: https://youtu.be/-5wpm-gesOY
That is either the video about timezones (btw: fuck timezones, all my homies use UTC) or I’m about to get rick rolled.
Those were both good guesses! I’m genuinely a fan of Rick Astley – have you heard Beautiful Life yet?
If I were gonna rickroll you in this community, though, I’d do it in the original Klingon.
Only UTC all over the world even better
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Floridian here. Wtf we finally do something right and vote to stay on DST year round and Congress won’t let it happen? It’s been YEARS that it’s been on the table with Congress. I will give them an excuse for not getting any work done on Hang Mike Pence day, but really this is getting a bit annoying.
They won’t tell you the Bell riots were actually about daylight savings time.
I regret to inform all of you that it is technically Daylight Saving Time and not Daylight Savings Time and now you must suffer with this information with me
Man i can’t wait to be insufferable in a whole new way! Rather than my suffering you have given me the power of pedantry. And i will use this power for evil
Imagine how fucking complex it would be arrange an appointment with somebody on another planet.
“See you at 11 o clock then?”
“Eh, we’ve only got 10 hours in a day. Spins like a motherfucker.”
The very first BattleTech novel, Decision at Thunder Rift, tried this.
It’s set on a planet in fairly close orbit of a red dwarf star, so its year lasts three local solar days, and the whole thing takes like four Earth weeks. There’s a whole section near the beginning of the book that explains it.
Most of the rest of the series uses the modern Gregorian calendar.
I mean Starfield, for all its many flaws, tracks local time for your current plant and location and universal time. Didn’t see why that wouldn’t be the standard. Anyone who only interacts locally only knows the one, but most people just always have two clocks that don’t match.
Starfield is an interactive video game, you can render the sun(s) in the sky, hang clocks on the walls, do all kinds of things with GUIs. And the player can look for the information they need at the moment.
Decision at Thunder Rift is a novel. It goes on and on about the orbit of this planet and its effect on the weather, and they still have to convert to days/weeks/months for the benefit of the reader. The very next book doesn’t bother; it’s a direct sequel to the first with the same author and main characters, and I don’t remember it even mentioning the local timekeeping system, other than maybe talking about “long summer evenings” or some such.
By the time you get to the Blood Of Kerensky trilogy every chapter starts with something like “Luthien City, Luthien, Pesht Military District, Darconis Combine. March 12, 3050.” They might occasionally mention “local winter” or something but seldom delve into how the local clocks and calendars work.
Also even though events take place light years apart, it doesn’t bother with stuff like relativity. It’s March 12 everywhere at once.
I’m not sure I understand what point you’re trying to make? Separate clocks like this are so complicated even the Battletech books stopped using them? It’s easier to do environmental storytelling in video games than it is in novels? Just looking for an excuse to talk about sci-fi conventions?
Well kinda looking for an excuse to talk about sci-fi conventions. I mean that’s the entire point of this community, right? to talk about Sci-Fi especially Star Trek?
But I think the broader point I’m trying to make is that Sci-Fi creators realized that creating exotic clocks and calendars isn’t worth it. It’s just a waste of the audiences and the authors time. “We interrupt this exciting action story about a daring dashing young robot tank pilot and his plucky band of mercenaries to bring you a ten page lecture on exochronology.”
Even in a series that tries to be as hard sci-fi as Battletech (no magic, no telepathy, no sentient aliens (okay there was that one time and it’s still technically canon but we don’t talk about that), no god-like aliens etc. everything is science, technology and physics) the authors kind of gave up bothering the audience with how the clocks work on every little planet, other than mentioning “long nights” or something. Star Trek doesn’t do it often either.
Well kinda looking for an excuse to talk about sci-fi conventions. I mean that’s the entire point of this community, right? to talk about Sci-Fi especially Star Trek?
Well why do you think I brought up Starfield?
I like the addition in Starfield, if for no other reason that it shows how unwieldy and difficult it is when it’s easy to implement. Stellaris has a standardized calendar with a 360 day year of 12 30-day months. I don’t think it’s an addition that makes a novel any better usually (they almost never mention toilets, either) but I do think they can add something to a game or even a movie as part of a set piece. I think the stories where it’s a plot detail are… Less engaging.
The clock starts at 0300 and ends at 1300.
I would seriously consider living in Utopia Planitia.
Like, I’ll take basic crew quarters as long as my porthole has a view of the yards.
I bet the Vulcans never tried to “Save Daylight” by changing the clocks twice a year
Vulcans have an aneurysm trying to study Earth history.
Vulcans have an aneurysm trying to study Earth history.
Cue the copypasta: https://reactormag.com/the-answer-to-why-humans-are-so-central-in-star-trek/
I always loved this one:
Klingons: okay we don't get it Vulcan science academy: what what? Klingons: You Vulcans are a bunch of stuffy prisses but you're also tougher, stronger, and smarter than humans in every single way. Why do you let them run your Federation? VSA: Look. This is a species where if you give them two warp cores, they don't do experiments on one and save the other for if the first one blows up. This is a species where if you give them two warp cores, they will ask for a third one, immediately plug all three into each other, punch a hole into an alternate universe where humans subscribe to an even more destructive ideological system, fight everyone in it because they're offended by that, steal their warp cores, plug those together, punch their way back here, then try to turn a nearby star into a torus because that was what their initial scientific experiment was for and they didn't want to waste a trip. VSA: They did that last week, we have the write-up right here. It's getting published in about six hundred scientific journals across two hundred different disciplines because of how many established theories their ridiculous little experiment has just called into question. Also, they did turn that sun into a torus, and no one actually knows how. VSA: This is why we let them do whatever the hell they want. Klingons: Can we be a part of your Federation?PS: We just got a requisition for four warp cores.
Yeah, although think about having to coordinate communications between Utopia Planitia and Earth. It’s confusing as hell when NASA has to communicate with Mars probes. Everyone goes on “Mars time” schedules so they can coordinate communications times.
Not because Mars is so far away. Subspace communication wouldn’t make a difference. Because Mars and Earth have different day lengths.
Isn’t it nice how everyone everywhere is awake at the same time in Star Trek?
Ships always meet oriented the same way too. You rarely see one ship upside-down from another. Usually only in combat.
I knew what you had linked to before I even clicked on it.
I figured workers beamed up to the yards every day. Saves having to build crew quarters in space.
Depending on the energy and resource requirements of transporters it may still be more efficient (and less risky) to build housing in space versus trans-orbital commuting via beaming.
I believe it’s been mentioned before that transporters are hard enough to build and run that most non-critical transport is still done with conventional shuttles to save resources and ensure timely transport for actually critical tasks. And Taking a shuttle commute from Earth to Spacedock would be a bit time consuming. And considering the thousands that would work at Utopia Planitia- yeah thats a decent bit of traffic.
transporters are hard enough to build and run that most non-critical transport is still done with conventional shuttles to save resources
When was this mentioned? I basically figured that Trek’s post-scarcity civilization would make the energy expenditures trivial.
OTOH – Mars is at least a day’s travel from Earth at Warp 1. I’m not sure what a reasonable range for the transporter is, but “multiple light-days” does seem a bit much.
I seem to remember it being discussed in some book somewhere, so idk if its Canon. I think it had less to do with energy and more to do with the actual logistics of having sufficient transporter pads and network bandwidth for volume of people.
Well they use replicators for food. I believe holodecks were explained as the same type of matter energy manipulation. So I’m not sure it would take that much.
It’s much more logical to blow up the sun instead.
Stargate entered the chat
Carter leaves the room in a huff.
Naw, more link this:
If you ask Feldwebel Schultz about DST:
When Vulcans decide to save daylight, they build a Dyson Sphere.
Idk man… Arizona??
(Source: lived there. But also, for your intellectual consideration, fuck dst)
Indiana used to only have DST near Louisville and Chicago. Then Mitch Daniels ran a first failed campaign for governor on the “give Indiana DST” platform. When he ran again and was re-elected, he gave Indiana DST.
I was born and raised in Indiana, but I was living in California when it happened. It sucked that I had to move back and still deal with the DST I had to deal with in California.
I missed a connecting flight in Arizona once, because I didn’t know that they don’t observe DST. I thought I had another hour to get on my plane.
Arizona only has a change of about 4 hours winter to summer vs Northern cities that lose 7 though. The big fight in the north is whether you leave for work in the dark, or leave to go home from work in the dark.
But I also lived in Arizona and DST is so damn terrible. But I’m on team year-round DST because I want after work daylight to get things done (vs Arizona which is year-round Standard Time.
Saskatchewan is fairly directly north of Arizona, in the sane time zone, doesn’t do it either. Everyone in Saskatchewan is familiar with forcing foreign electronics onto Arizona time because the developers just looked at a world time zone map that neglected to note Saskatchewan, in addition to having no DST, is partially in the wrong tome zone. Western half is supposed to be on mountain time, eastern on central, same as BC is cut down the middle into mountain amd Pacific. So anyways my phone decided I was on central DST Sunday night and switched me to Manitoba time, I opened an hour early and was a little perturbed, it’s cause Bell outsourced everything to Bombay.
Sounds frustrating as hell
Dude, Bombay is not the preferred nomenclature. Mumbai, please.
No, they would have been exceedingly logical and rational, and never done anything other than Standard Time, which would have seen local noon line up as close as possible with solar noon.
Because why call it “noon” if it’s more than a half-hour out?
saving*
Savingss*
I never thought DST was a big deal until I lived somewhere without it, and let me tell you that sunlight from 5 to 8:30 is infinitely better than 4 to 7:30. What percentage of people are awake at 4 vs 5 do you think?
All I’m saying is first light at 3 AM sucks ass
Where I live we have sunlight from 5:20 to 22:00 in summer. This means going to bed while it’s still light outside. We’re actually in the wrong time zone though, the sun is at the highest point somewhere around 14:00 in the summer.
Where was that, because it sounds more like they were in the wrong time zone. (Which happens quite often.)
Japan doesn’t do dst, and when you get to the same latitude as about NYC you get sun times like I mentioned. But even in the states the time zones are pretty broad. New York can have sunset after 8, but Michigan is in the same time zone and the sunset is after 9.
Technically we need to stay in Daylight Savings Time. I.e. what we have now with more light in the evening. We just came from standard time: more light in the morning. We just need to stop changing now.
The sun rising even later in the winter is far worse than rising earlier in the summer. It is also giving in to the idea that ‘business hours’, which are lopsided to after noon, needing to drive everyone’s clocks instead of the sun.
9 to 5 or 8 to 5 business hours are the problem. Just make business hours an even 8 to 4 and you have the exact same evening hours as DST but mornings are not any later in the winter than they are with standard time.
You can’t change business hours like that. It would require a lot more of a law to mandate anything of the sort.
I want more evening daylight so I can actually do things after I’m done with work. Changing to DST would make that easier. IDGAF about morning light. Others may want the opposite but I guess they are morning people.
“You can’t change business hours like that”
Businesses set their hours however they want, they’re private.
You can’t change business hours like that. It would require a lot more of a law to mandate anything of the sort.
Businesses can just change their own hours. Wherever they want. Doesn’t require a law or anything.
All the government has to do is do away with daylight savings, and you can negotiate with your boss for better start/end times for your personal needs.
If you’re a morning person, you don’t mind rising earlier, so DST is what you’d want. I’m an evening person, and I find it terrible to wake up at 6:30 while my biological clock says it’s only 5:30.
You can’t write laws for businesses, just for everyone else?
You do know that DST happens in the summer, right?
Yeah, I don’t really understand the concept of needing to save daylight hours during the time of the longest amounts of daylight per day.
Yes. You cannot get a law through Congress that saws all office businesses change their start times. There isn’t a law mandating that now, it’s just convention. The very idea you can make sweeping changes like that without major pushback is silly.
Yes. But in Summer you have MORE light all the time. You don’t have an issue with late sunrise and early sunset in the summer. You have that in winter. And my position is I’d like more sunlight in the evening rather than the morning. That’s it.
I think we’re the seeing the difference in location in the comments lol. People that don’t live with 0 sunlight in winter, because youre at work for those hours, probably don’t understand. It’s actually OK for states to cancel DLS if they convert to standard, but not the spring forward time. I heard that’s why MN can’t change theirs permanently, because they want spring forward time but that’s not legal federally.
Yeah, I’m not even that far north but having sunset before 5pm locally is pretty bad. I’d personally rather have sunrise by 830 rather than 730. The time change just got us sunlight for any amount of time post 6pm.
Same, it’s debilitating! In the middle of winter for me, there’s no helping it, it will always be dark both before and after work. But the first third and last third, I would love some sunlight that’s not at 6-8am. Those times are spent prepping for work so I don’t get to enjoy it, even if I was a morning person.
The data is in, standard time is healthier than daylight savings time.
Citation?
From the cited reference:
Although chronic effects of remaining in daylight saving time year-round have not been well studied, daylight saving time is less aligned with human circadian biology—which, due to the impacts of the delayed natural light/dark cycle on human activity, could result in circadian misalignment, which has been associated in some studies with increased cardiovascular disease risk, metabolic syndrome and other health risks.
Not a study. Just a recommendation. A position statement. There’s no evidence either way.
One thing I think we can all agree on is that the time change sucks. There appears to be a trend of studies that take a position statement on which time is more compatible with human biology meriting more research but that’s going to take time. Meanwhile there’s a mountain of evidence with an overwhelming avalanche of studies that conclude the abrupt time change is fucking dogshit for human biology, mental well being, and energy consumption accelerating climate change. I wish standard time was proven healthier just out of preference, but I’d be fine with just picking a time and sticking with it.
Agreed. I’d prefer daylight time, but stopping the change is absolutely crucial. At the very least it’s just fucking annoying and serves little purpose anymore.
This is a good point. These position statements treat standard time as though it is synonymous with circadian alignment, which makes some bad assumptions. Fundamentally the bad assumption is that if there is light in the morning people will be exposed to it. Most people go from a curtained bedroom to a windowless office or classroom, and don’t get much sun exposure in the morning whether the sun is up or not. It’s arguable that the only thing that matters is whether the sun’s up during free time, which for most people occurs only in the early evening.
That was just the first link, I can give you more (and I’m certain studies) all day long. It’s really not hard to google.
Even with the loss of an hour, it’s daylight until 9:30 pm here during the summer. I’m okay with losing an hour. What’s rough is that the sun goes down at 4pm in the winter, even with the gained hour.
It’s the other way around. The hour “gained” (shifted from morning to evening) in the evening is in the summer. Permanent DST would mean sundown at 5pm in the winter for you.
Well that’s just stupid then!
