oldie meme but needed to bring this back due to recent incidents 😭
This is anywhere on the internet.
yeah :p bit of a hyperbolic statement my fault
Tell me you’re not married without saying you’re not married
well that’s just a depressing self admission :( you doing okay? /gen
So you’re saying everyone should marry???
/s
Me: “I like pancakes”
Lemmy: “Only a shitlib western imperialist would think that. Read more Lenin.”
Me: “I like waffles”
Lemmy: “HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO GO MY LIFE WITHOUT PANCAKES YOU OPPRESSIVE INSENSITIVE FUCK”
True, properly educated and vetted comrades would prefer blini.
What…. This is on par with any kind of internet discourse. It’s pretty much why I hardly ever post prior to Lemmy. It doesn’t matter how well articulated the post, SOMEONE will find the need to correct or clarify unnecessarily.
it’s really sad because i take great pride and pleasure from reading other people’s thoughts and posts. but when i try to give back, it’s immediately jumped on by dogpilers and “oh you actually meant something else…” people. and when i do the bare minimum to defend myself, they slap back with the “okay buddy, sure” and downvote my defense so it’s invisible to other readers.
needless to say my blocklist is nearing 100 users.
and downvote my defense so it’s invisible to other readers.
Lemmy isn’t an endless torrent of comments. Even downvoted ones get reached.
I see more Motte-and-bailey fallacy.
I see less “I like pancakes” and more “I think pancakes are superior to waffles” from the first commenter.
Then the second commenter responds, “So you hate waffles?”
Then the first commenter retreats to “No, I just like pancakes. Why are you assuming what I’m saying? Don’t you understand I’m being nuanced?”
Also, nuance is one of the more recent words to have a new usage like literally, which can now mean figuratively. When people say their argument is nuanced they mean it is good or correct. It reminds me of the use objective to describe a person to pretend they don’t have biases to incorrectly validate their arguments.
me: lot of pancakes out there
you: actually i see more waffles
(with peace and love haha you make excellent points i just couldn’t resist)
In the context of this self-referencing observation, I would say, I see lots of waffles pretending to be pancakes.
i approve and adopt your extension of the metaphor
Prior to the US election, there were many people that did this exact thing- only it was “oh yeah? Well… you support genocide!”
They’re rarely here anymore. Which is what was predicted that typically warranted their response to begin with.
Bravery is leaving both the ifunny and imgflip watermarks.
-“Russia should not invade a sovereign country, murder its citizens and deport their children.”
-“Umm, actually, the US were doing crimes in Syria and you should not support them.”
But by contrast
“We need to negotiate an end to the war on Ukraine.”
“Oh so you want to let Russia kill all Ukrainians?”
On Lemmy it’s more like:
“I don’t like pancakes.”
“Oh, so I suppose that waffles are perfect huh??”
Nah, it’s more like “you should delete windows now and get Linux”
I agree that conversations sometimes end up being about Linux, which is unfortunate. People seldom recommend installing BSD or other free systems, which is a shame. The lesson here is that we should all install OpenBSD.
Fish!
Oh so you hate Linux, huh
Oh, so you hate BSD huh?
Oh, so you hate Plan9 huh?
openBSD
You mean Haiku?
how dare you say we piss on the poor
i never said that! i only piss on the MOON
:(
Who’s more poor than the moon, though? It not just doesn’t have any money, it’s not even ALLOWED to own money!
YOU HAVE 23 HOURS BEFORE THE PISS DROPLETS HIT THE FUCKING EARTH
One time I said AI porn was unethical (because it is) and people here thought I was calling for a ban on all porn. At no point did I say that porn was unethical as a rule, and if I did believe that I wouldn’t have mentioned AI at all.
It’d be nice if we could regulate porn in good faith. Every attempt to regulate it in the US has been an obvious attempt to shut it down, but it should be regulated like anything else. Sex toys, too. Lots of questionable substances are used in sex toys that probably shouldn’t be inserted into the human body.
Sex toys are not regulated in the us?! There are a ton of regulations in the EU unfortunately not the same in all countries but some even classify them as medical devices. There is also the standard ISO 3533 “Sex toys — Design and safety requirements for products in direct contact with genitalia, the anus, or both” which is not required at the moment? is still used as a guideline.
None beyond that ISO standard, which yes, is advisory. If it can be shown to be dangerously unsafe, it’s subject to a recall, but that’s only going to happen if the batteries tend to explode or something like that. There’s lots of unsafe types of plastic that get through.
https://www.compliancegate.com/sex-toys-regulations-united-states/
The United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is an independent agency of the US government, overseeing the safety of consumer products. It develops and enforces safety standards in the United States. It also conducts research related to hazards and risks to the public caused by consumer products.
The CPSC has not yet developed a specific safety standard for sex toys. However, importers and manufacturers are required to report to the CPSC if their product could create a substantial risk of injury to the public, for example, because of a manufacturing defect or a design issue.
In practice, an unsafe sex toy is subject to a recall, regardless of whether it is covered by mandatory safety standards. Hence, importers or manufacturers of sex toys should ensure that their products are safe, for instance by complying with relevant voluntary safety standards.
this shit pisses me off, my instinct is to say irrationally, but i feel it’s probably totally rational to have your own carefully chosen words used in such a hamfisted perversion
yesterday i made a post saying “hey look there’s a pattern to how ableist terms begin as descriptive or medical terms and its only later they are coopted as insults, the most recent of which is ‘neurodivergent’”
top comment? “dude stop telling us to stop using the word ‘neurodivergent.’” 30+ upvotes. and when i respond saying that actually making people abandon the word wasn’t my goal? downvotes.
like what even is the point of writing words if crusty ass debate lords insist on interpretation to mean the exact opposite 80% of the time?
The short answer is that the trend you are describing does not apply to the word neurodivergent because neurodivergent is not a medical term.
Neurodivergent is a nonmedical term that describes people whose brains develop or work differently for some reason. This means the person has different strengths and struggles from people whose brains develop or work more typically. While some people who are neurodivergent have medical conditions, it also happens to people where a medical condition or diagnosis hasn’t been identified.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
Your argument was a false equivalency that the r-slur and neurodivergent share the same origin and thus will share the same fate. The implication of such a line reasoning is that since all of these ableist words became known as insults we shouldn’t be concerned about the usage of any of them. In other words, legitimizing the r-slur and other ableist language because eventually neurodivergent will be as bad.
People in that thread explained how neurodivergent is fundamentally different. Neurodivergent is a nonmedical word people are choosing to describe themselves as that validates them as a opposed to a medical word that was chosen for them that pathologizes them. Your argument then attempted to dismiss this by saying all of these words have different origins. When in fact they have two, medical and nonmedical.
The euphemism treadmill argument presented by your meme attempts to ignore that distinction to make all the words seem equivalent. When in fact the words used before neurodivergent were always ableist because they were always hurtful even if that wasn’t initially recognized as such by neurotypical people using them.
Like trans and cis, neurodivergent and neurotypical acknowledge a difference without being opinionated about which side of that difference is normal or abnormal. These terms are opinionated about which side has privilege and which side does not. These kind of terms receive backlash from the people who find themselves in the privileged cis and neurotypical categories because they realize these labels exposes the power that comes from the privilege of being the default.
Rather than engaging in a good faith discussion about this privilege, those fearful that they will lose this privilege engage in bad faith discussions intended to undermine the mechanism that exposed that privilege. These discussions tend to involve fallacies and usage of words like nuance and objective to obscure what is really happening.
The problem for the people acting in bad faith now is, we’ve all done this song and dance multiple times now. We know what to look for. We will call it out. We get to keep telling the truth and using words that expose the truth.
two separate discussions.
i fully agree with everyone who is saying what you are saying here (including yourself). thank you! group A, call them. if you read those comments deeply, you will see i have responded with cheerful enthusiasm and accepted their contribution. i thank you for it here too.
other people, we’ll say group B (perhaps a smaller number but i never claimed it was 50/50) falsely just said “you are telling us not to use the word neurodivergent. stop it.”
please, im begging. i don’t want to be an ass and block you but if you come into a separate thread of mine to give your reading on dozens and dozens of comments, read all of them? :(
Your argument disregarded the arguments that refuted your central point, group A, in a very cheerful manner and instead hyperfocused on arguments that were easier to disparage, group B.
My arguments focused on group A because that it is what should have been the end to a good faith discussion. Your insistence on going after group B, a more defensible position, is an attempt to continue this discussion under a veneer of good faith.
Multiple arguments have established your argument’s position to be false. If you want to continue to have these discussions in good faith I highly recommend you engage with the implications of your argument and its position being incorrect.
please, im begging. i don’t want to be an ass and block you but if you come into a separate thread of mine to give your reading on dozens and dozens of comments, read all of them? :(
I read the other post and did not engage because I saw it had reached the limits of a good faith discussion. I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. Now I see a new post that attempts to continue that discussion without addressing the lessons learned or misconceptions exposed.
You’re not begging you’re threatening. I will not comply in advance. I will tell the truth and expose the truth. And, thankfully I am not the only person who will do so.
Multiple arguments have established your argument’s position to be false.
Ah! There’s your misconception. I was not making an argument. I was comparing a series of similar events and noting how forces exist that may try to continue that pattern. Now, I think it’s fair to misconceive that once, upon first reading the post. But you read all the comments right? So you will see all the times where I say “this is descriptive, not perscriptive” or: “I am showing the forces at play so people are aware of them.” Call it “expressing a concern,” perhaps. Not telling people what to do or “making an argument.”
Hope this makes sense ❤️
Again, it’s super fair to misconceive it once, but fortunately I exist and have the capacity to clarify! So after this, you won’t have to worry about misunderstanding. Right? Because if not you are literally the “so you hate waffles” guy in the post and that’s super embarrassing for you. XD
My arguments focused on group A because that it is what should have been the end to a good faith discussion.
It’s not even the end, fortunately! :D I am actively having these conversations still, and they are all in good faith. I’m actually having a lot of fun with the Group A whom you falsely claim I am disregarding. You conveniently ignore this in order to get some seratonin from writing me paragraphs about “exposing truth”??!!, and that’s super sad. 😔 You could be having fun interesting discussions along the same lines if you hadn’t made it weird. Sorry, man.
Your argument in the previous post was establishing a false equivalence. An attempt to show a pattern between two dissimilar things. That was the bailey.
With this post you have retreated to the motte, hyperfocusing on another group of arguments to distract from the arguments that refuted your central point.
Because if not you are literally the “so you hate waffles” guy in the post
By obfuscating your position, by pretending you were misunderstood, you were hoping to be unchallenged in a hypothetically more defensible position so you could claim victory.
You conveniently ignore this in order to get some seratonin from writing me paragraphs about “exposing truth”??!!, and that’s super sad. 😔 You could be having fun interesting discussions along the same lines if you hadn’t made it weird. Sorry, man.
As my argument has exposed this deception your argument is now relying on ad hominen attacks. Your playbook lacks the means to interact meaningfully with an argument that engages and refutes both your argument’s desired bailey, attacking the word neurotypical because it exposes privilege, and what turned out to be a not so defensible motte, misleading accusations of assumptions and new usages of the word nuance.
Group B identified your argument’s desire to undermine the validation people feel from using the word neurodivergent. Your argument’s goal was to get people to stop using the word neurodivergent. Your argument’s motivation for this is to undermine a mechanism that exposes the privilege that neurotypical people enjoy,
and that’s super embarrassing for you. XD
Your declaration of victory has defeated you.
LMAO
have a good one mate
A large portion of the world is experiencing political polarization. I see the same things happening on Lemmy happen on other social media websites.
The “if you don’t agree with me you must have the exact opposite opinion” approach to debate seems to be more a problem of the participants than the platform.
i feel this problem might be worse on the fediverse because of the political communities that form around instances, e.g. .ml, .blahaj.zone, .world
Pretty much every time I dare to say anything negative about Russia or China I’m swarmed with illiterate tankie lemmings who jump into the conclusion that criticising one empire automatically means supporting the other empire.
Zzzzzz
Great. Another corpo-fascist centrist who doesn’t understand the Overton Window.
wow can’t believe this guy wants me to kiss nazis on the lips /s
I said don’t kiss Nazi ass. That’s not the same thing.
How can you not like waffles! That’s outrageous! I’m so triggered right now!
That’s a waffleturd take if I’ve ever seen one
You’re just a shill for Big Pancake!
I read that Big Pancake wants to leave the French Toast Accords
tbf, that heuristic works ~80% of the time, which is way higher than I’d like, but that’s the effect of polarization
And yet, you assumed an image on catbox would work on my device. Interesting.
skill issue, sorry
lol. It’s just iOS, voyager, vpn, and ad blocking are not conducive to seeing hosted images.
I’m on iOS, using voyager, proton vpn, and a 3rd party ad blocker and the image loaded just fine for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same. But sometimes they don’t.
I like Mlem a lot more than voyager. The only thing it isn’t as good at is videos. I’ve never had an issue with catbox on Mlem
That’s French toast erasure.
I like to insult and block these people. My fear of course, with Lemmy being so small, is I will block everyone. Then again, that’s still better than dealing with illiterate, contrarian assholes
I feel the same way, then I look at my blocklist and it’s just lemmy.ml, anime subs, 3 people, some political terms, and a bot. I also have a .world account I use when I want to view the whole Lemmy experience anyways. Tbh I still feel kinda bad about blocking .ml, there was some cool peeps on there but I just can’t deal with all the tankie drama
I also blocked ml, it just ain’t worth it. I figure the cool people will eventually leave for another instance anyways
You can block terms?
I use Voyager (mobile app), I have no idea if you can on desktop but I would assume so.
Thanks for the tip. I have Voyager, I didn’t realize you could use it like that.
