I mean it is funny, but there’s a chasm between government censorship and whatever xitter is doing.
that pic of the woman saying Dumb NWORD , followed up by a rebuttal Dumb Cracker (the latter was taken down by admins) tells you all you need to know about elon musk
Well, that’s how “biased free speech” works.
Crazy thought: What if both platforms are bad?
The fucking side picking on this, and the principles so called progressives and even leftist (being openly welcomed to the tankie side, I guess) are willing to throw out the window just to defend an openly oppressive and abusive state simply because it is “anti-American”, as if both aren’t pulling the same shit in slightly different variations, is doing my fucking head in.
What will it take for people to realise all states exist to oppress and control the working class for the benefit of the ruling one, no matter who it theoretically opposes? (not a social media fad, that’s for fucking sure)
Surely staying isolated from the Chinese populous will help us achieve internationalism.
Man on floating whale corpse: “Your boat stinks!”
Man on burning garbage scow: “What?”
At least the whale is biodegradable!
If you cannot host it, you cannot own it. If you cannot own it, it’s not resistant to censorship.
Well clearly Elon has demonstrated that ownership does not resist one’s own censorship either… Almost like we need something that nobody fully owns…
Or that everybody owns. The means of information distribution and the means of production should be completely in the hands of the people.
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. If everybody “owns” it, then nobody fully “owns” it.
Just putting a fine point on it.
Commie
Thanks, comrade!
Twitter’s CEO just violated their own TOS because he’s a butt hurt little baby about people finding out he only tells lies.
There is nothing in China that will ever harm you as much as the American Government does. Ever.
But keep giving your info to the NSA, I’m sure they’re good people with good intentions. Surely.
And this here is the exact reason im on lemmy.
Lemmy.ml: Comment removed for rule 1. Banned from all communities.
I knew someone would mention it but on lemmy if youre banned from one instance you can just use the other 200 instances
Aye of course, just poking fun that it’s not always free from the same bullshit here too!
Don’t pretend we’re free to post literally anythere here, either. There’s rules.
Its kind of a choose which rules you want. You have to agree with the hivemind but you can choose which one. At least this exposes the communities to each other to mix ideas. While i hate .ml they do have some stuff that is good.
different instances have different rules,there are instances that are more homophobic and others that are more lgbtq. instances can choose to federate or not with other instances, however those instances that most disagree with will still exist.
Has Lemmy just been completely flooded with CCP apologists now?
RedNote ToS includes provisions that require you to post “correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture”.
I guess if you believe Taiwan should be “returned” to the mainland, Uhghurs deserve to be “re-educated” and enslaved, and that China is the natural and rightful pre-eminant global power… you’re gonna be fine.
Lmao yes, have you not been spending much time on here? The second biggest instance is run by tankies
Let’s just say I roll with the stricter, more traditional definition of “tankie” not the current definition which is much closer to “people I disagree with”
Yes, I’ll take my downvote now sir.
I took it as “don’t pretend we don’t have censorship too”
Saying “there is censorship here” in no way implies “there is not censorship there”
It’s false equivalence though, although with the election of shadow president Musk it’s getting a bit more hazy.
Even so, one is an (admittedly hugely influential) private company and the other is the actual single-party government dictating what speech is allowed.
one is an (admittedly hugely influential) private company and the other is the actual single-party government
The US has been governed by public-private partnerships for centuries. Trying to draw a line between the industry administrators that get promoted into every crevice of public sector bureaucracy and the elected politicians who depart office to serve as lobbyists and board members of private firms is a fool’s errand.
Do we celebrate Chris Dodd the Senator and denounce Chris Dodd the chairman of and chief lobbyist for the MPAA? Do we applaud Hank Paulson the Treasury Secretary and denounce Hank Paulson the CEO of Goldman Sachs?
Americans seem to have no trouble drawing a straight line between Singapore-incorporated ByteDance and the Chinese Communist Party. Why can’t they see the connection between Howard Lutnick or Linda McMahon or Betsy DeVos or Elaine Chao and the businesses they own and operate?
Hey you’ll get no argument from me. I’m on Lemmy for a reason. But it’s still not the same as just straight up “the government decides what is thoughtcrime”
When all of the companies do it and they do as they are told by daddy Sam… What is the difference.
The only difference I see is that they don’t send you to gulag in US unless you really make some dear leader life uncomfortable.
Americans still do a lot of self censorship. Anything Israel related gets modded into shot on normie socials.
Luigi is prolly best example… They are suppressing that across all media, fake news and social… How is this different from shepoohs bullshit?
I’m not defending the bad things our government does. But do we see mass arrests of people wearing Luigi shirts? Will you be denied a passport as a result of posting some critical message on social media? I had friends, very average unimportant people, who were detained for days at a Chinese airport for having a social media history showing support for Taiwan. It’s not the same thing.
Us has largest prison population in the world?
Capitalist regimes targets people differently but the function of the oppression is the same.
brought to you by the same users that made:
- you’re a Nazi because you don’t support Palestine
- Harris is evil, vote 3rd party
- I’d rather vote for Jill Stein than vote for Trump
- Harris is just as bad as Trump
- If you support Harris you want to kill Palestinian babies you Nazi
- Democrats and Republicans are the same
- If China is bad, America is worse
- American censorship is worse than Chinese censorship
- TikTok was banned because it was a threat to the American surveillance state
you’re a Nazi because you don’t support Palestine
Legit. Supporting genocide kinda invalidates your other points.
Okay, but if you recognize genocide in Palestine, that’s just a vote for Donald Trump who is a Nazi.
That means recognizing genocide makes you a Nazi. Only by ignoring genocide, shutting up about 3rd parties, admitting China is worse, venerating Democrats as the only good party worthy of your vote, and apologizing for any kind of environmentalism that might cost us the election can you truly stand up for the people of Palestine.
And since Harris didn’t win, we know you broke these rules. The only reason you’d do that is if you secretly conspired to hand Donald Trump the election, because you’re a Nazi.
Legit. Supporting genocide kinda invalidates your other points.
Let’s flip that around. If you support genocide right here at home because you were concerned about genocide abroad, that kinda invalidates your other points.
I dunno maybe some folks can’t have more than one thought in their head at a time.
Edit: I see there are at least a few people who think it’s perfectly ok to usher in a new era of trans genocide in America so they can loudly proclaim their Very Important concern about Palestinian genocide. I’m glad you feel strongly about that issue, as you should. I’m just not too keen on it coming at the cost of many trans live right here when you really could have been concerned about both at the same time.
I think a real genocide, which has been called out by the International Criminal Court, trumps your imaginary, fantasy genocide.
Comparing whatever it is they think Trump will do to trans people, to the near complete annihilation of a nation while killing 100 plus thousand people on live stream, is a wild thing to do. Bananas.
Oh look! A genocide pissing contest!
Which you started
Not really.
Pretty sure Lemmy has always been full of people who support freedom of speech, open internet, internationalism, anti-censorship, etc.
It’s got nothing to do with “apologizing” for some state targeted by this wacko genocidal empire.
Um, whut?
Lmao Lemmy was founded by the .mls, this dude has no idea what he’s talking about
Yes, been that way from the start and is made by them.
RedNote ToS includes provisions that require you to post “correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture”.
Damn that private company implementing Terms of Service to limit discourse to historically accurate topics of conversation. Now I’ll never get Wuhan Lableak blurbs and weird religious propaganda injected into my video feed.
I guess if you believe Taiwan should be “returned” to the mainland, Uhghurs deserve to be “re-educated” and enslaved, and that China is the natural and rightful pre-eminant global power…
I mean, what gives the US the right to encircle Taiwan with its Navy? Why were we so fervent in defending the right of Afghani teenager girls to obtain an education, but so cavalier in denying it to Uighur girls threatened by the same Islamic radicalism just on the other side of the Afghan/China border? How do we have US Senators and CENTCOM chiefs debating the best method for severing Chinese exports from the international markets, while asserting the threat of Chinese global supremacy?
It’s all upsidedown and backwards in America-World. If you want to talk about Chinese global hegemony, consider the methods at their disposal. To quote Dr Lubinda Haabazoka, Director of the University of Zambia Graduate School of Business and former President of the Economics Association of Zambia
Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture.
It’s “correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture” as according to the CCP. Imagine an American company with that clause, but those “correct views” were as according to the US government. You would be against that, yeah? Imagine getting your comment removed because you question the US’s authority
You’re just describing Reddit.
Yeah I love how reddit banned /r/Sino
Oh wait, they didn’t. They actually allow their users to criticize their government
I’m curious what that has to do with kowtowing to the US government. I think I provided a pretty good example of proof that Reddit doesn’t moderate based on what their government says is true
I think I provided a pretty good example of proof
:-/
Found the China zealot. Do you get paid or is this just for the love of the party?
I stack my Renminbi in one closet and my SorosBux in another.
But what do you do with the ZuckBucks?
I keep them in my back pocke… glances down at non-existent legs OH NO!
Sound like you don’t have a leg to stand on. Maybe MuskBucks are the answer here.
RedNote ToS includes provisions that require you to post "correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture
Tankies got all their canned responses with links to do their every chance they get. I wonder if there is a central repository for this
I think they just post the same stuff over and over. It’s like quoting Bible verses - they’re trying to prove it to themselves.
Mostly no (I hope), we’re just laughing at americans literally not being able to read anything soaked with propaganda and switching from one source to another.
Ccp apologists can suck Winnies dick
we’re just laughing at americans literally not being able to read anything soaked with propaganda
All Americans? Everything they read?
-10000000 social credit score
There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.
Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.
But the concept exists, nonetheless.
The idea that the tech and surveillance obsessed Chinese government isn’t keeping tags on its citizens, to at least the same degree western countries are keeping tags on theirs is patently absurd, and all you’re doing by pretending otherwise is licking the left boot instead of the right,.
Should we be making a large effort to spread the word of better options to people? I feel like the discoverability of social networks (like this one) has gone way down, and a lot of people would like somewhere to doomscroll that isn’t shit, but just aren’t aware of other places/apps.
Certainly may not help that setting up LemmyWorld on my phone involved a pinned website app, something I’m guessing a lot of people haven’t done before.
Were you an early adopter of Lemmy? I’ve been using it since the API changes on Reddit broke Reddit is fun, and Connect for Lemmy was a drop in replacement off the play store
I mean you should do it but not out of spite, or to be hurtful, but to give people the freedom to choose.
And to do that, they need to know what their government was up to.
Yes imperialism is violent and hypocritical. Kinda 101. Strange to see so many apologists for this kind of censorship on Lemmy. Lib brainwashing plus state religion.
Sorry can you elaborate? Are you saying this post is apologetic of the Chinese platform’s censorship? I took it to be critical of both.
Edit: nevermind I see all the apologists in this thread now. And it’s also fair to criticize the OP for casually comparing the two platforms as if they are equally evil.
Westerners acting like they give a shit about the Uyghurs while they spent the last 20+ years bombing the ME and supporting a genocide against the Palestinians is just the tip of their hypocrisy.
Here’s a crazy thought: maybe all genocides are bad.
I bet you scream all lives matter at blm protestors.
“He started a sentence with ‘all’!”
All genocides are bad
“Wow you must be some sort of racist”
???
All lives matter.
All dogs go to heaven
I’m not American, but I am very much a Westerner.
I can protest my government’s shitty politics. I can vote in politicians that amplify the message. I can donate to politicians in other jurisdictions than mine that have good politics. MPs and MEPs that represent me and people who think like me have taken brave stances, have thrown wrenches, have done what they could. One day, just like we stopped South African Apartheid, we WILL stop Israeli Apartheid, and you can shove your cynicism up yours.
Are Chinese citizens allowed to do ANY of that?
You know this guy is gonna say they are allowed to, and choose not to because they love their government sooo much. Kind of like how the people of Germany loved Hitler so much that 99.3% of them voted for him in his last election.
so what flavor was the koolaide?
cherry is my favorite.
Never knew denying reality was cherry flavoured.
In college I had to present my research on the Uighur genocide to an audience of around 1000 students for a cultural festival. I pointed out the camps, the way the government rounded up the citizens, the forced labor, the organ harvesting, the sexual exploitation, human trafficking, etc.
backstage, I had five Chinese exchange students badgering me for two hours after the event. they were claiming the Uighurs were vile evil people who stabbed and raped everyday Chinese citizens and that the government was trying to help them become better Chinese.
I caught on pretty quickly that they were trying to confuse me and brainwash me into believing their lies. eventually I relented and pretended to accept their truth.
about a month later one of the five saw me and apologized. they said they had to go along with the others to prove their dedication to the Chinese government otherwise it’s likely one of the other four would report it and their family back in China would be imprisoned. they went further to say just by being in America that they would likely be sent to prison for a year for “reeducation” after they go back to China. this was to ensure that no students would come back to spread western ideals.
I thanked them for their bravery for telling me and wished them good fortune in their life. after that, we pretended to not know each other because we both knew the ramifications of even a hint of kinship.
so yes, I know alot about denying reality.
do you?
Aren’t you the guy i explained to that racists refer to the Chinese as yellow?
ok, but are the Chinese colored skin?
that’s what I’m confused about.
you’re correct, and thanks for pointing out that the original comment was a racist joke.
if I had called it racist outright I would have had my comments deleted.
you were so useful, thank you.
All that research and you still don’t even know how to spell a lot correctly.
sick burn!
is that all you’ve got?
if so, how disappointing. That’s what I get for expecting great retorts from new troll alts.
Troll account whines about troll account
but I’m not a troll account. this is my account, my one and only account.
no bots, no AI, nothing but my fingers and mild annoyance.
I would be really interested in seeing this research you are talking about and anything to corroborate your personal anecdote.
It’s funny you mention that. those five Chinese students said the exact same thing!
They weren’t really interested in the research though because they only wanted to use it as further evidence that my research was wrong because I wasn’t from China and they were. I know this because that’s one of the points they were desperately trying to hammer home. I think it was something along the lines of,
You can’t know how bad the Uighurs are because you never lived around them. they’re filthy despicable people who only commit crimes because they wanted to. You should visit China and live there to really understand how bad they are.
I know as soon as I step foot in China, even to this day, I would be taken and never seen again. not just from this one instance, but from a lifetime of calling out the Xi regime and the corruption in China.
also, what kind of fool do you take me for? I have nothing to prove to anyone on the internet.
take my anecdote how you will, but we both know you wouldn’t change your mind regardless.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about me, all I asked for is evidence to back your claims. I don’t know shit about China. Your story just reads to me like a “and then everybody clapped” kind of situation where we write off the chinese as racist and unwilling to fight their oppressors because of how racist they are, and terminate all further thought because we read a compelling story about some guy that did a college report one time and was approached by five mainland chinese that just happened to all be in the same class with him and have all this secret knowledge that nobody is allowed to talk about even though its true and everybody knows it’s happening and everybody agrees with it.
let’s break down your comment.
you claim that you want knowledge about China. then you claim my anecdote is unbelievable. you even mock me by belittling my anecdote, reducing it to a meme. then you accuse me of portraying the Chinese students as racists.
then you go on a 67 word rant desperately trying to discredit my anecdote.
50% of your comment is a rant. Half of it!
Now, if all you wanted was to educate yourself on China, why on earth did you spend half your time trying to discredit me. smells like bullshit…like you’re afraid of something. what could you be afraid of?
well in any case, If all you wanted was to learn about China, you have the largest collection of knowledge in history at your disposal. but since you can’t be bothered, I’ll spoon feed you some sources that are far more recent than any of the research I did.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/31/1001936433/who-the-uyghurs-are-and-why-china-is-targeting-them
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
good luck on your journey, I hope you find the courage to stop being afraid.
You do understand that daddy sam being evil empire doesn’t excuse chinaman from being an oppressive regime?
You understand that your bully acting like they care about how another bully treats their victims might be… perturbing though right?
Like obviously neither bully is justified. But the hypocrisy of it all might feel like rubbing salt in the wound.
Even more so when that wound is actually your dead friends and family… from all the bombs…
US regime is special in that way they are like the good liberal, they got the money and the guilt.
But at national level it work: I do genocide but I also criticize others for doing genocide
Yeah, their censorship is cruel and tragic.
But our censorship is cheeky and fun.
/s because unfortunately it’s necessary
Chinese shenanigans
Yeah, but Rednote censorship is bad because communism whilst Twitter’s censorship is fine because it’s the 100% Capitalist Free Market situation of a billionaire buying (using, amongst others, money from a Petro State) a privatelly owned forum for exchange of ideas and then shutting down any ideas he doesn’t like.
/s
It’s possible for platforms under the influence of the Chinese government and right wing American billionaires to both have harmful censorship.
But… But… the Tankies told me I had to choose!
What do you mean right wing America bad and China also bad?! But which team are you on then?! Someone tell me which crimes to excuse and which to condemn! /s
That was the point of the reply wasn’t it? Maybe I assume too much of them.
Nah, the point of the reply was supposed to be “America bad”, despite most of us clearly recognizing “Elon bad”.
American government bad. A government that Elon will have a lot of influence in starting Monday. There’s little meaningful difference between the two.
Still not as much influence as Pooh bear.
Not yet, at least. We’ll see how the next few years go.
I interpreted it as:
haha Chinese censorship
Right here too
more like “America isn’t much better”
The reply just pointed out the hypocrisy of the original poster.
(As in “here you are a willing participant in a forum were censorship is just as bad complaining about how there is this other forum were censorship is bad”)
It’s hard to take any apologists for the CCP seriously even if they make a good point.
That user is being hypocritical by using Twitter while bashing censorship, but it would be the cultural equivalent to praising Biden or Trump for never drinking and somebody comes along and praises Hitler for also not drinking. You should not praise Hitler even if it is true.
Are they CCP apologists? I have no idea who any of these people are.
Without any context, I read it as:
Haha Chinese censorship
You’re on a censored platform too.
In this precise example they are apologists because they’re deflecting criticism and bringing up other wrongdoings done by other people in a different part of the world under different means and for different goals.
OK, I dont read it that way so much as “Yeah all these platforms suck”, but they are still using them so sure.
I am sure cisgender (顺性别) and other genders are at least shadow-banned on red note. Honestly, I have not heard this word for my entire Chinese-speaking life, until one of my LGBT friend mentioned it.
Everyone knows China is a progressive communist/socialist country that recognizes genders :)
I’ve come across plenty of LGBT content on REDnote in my short time so far
That is interesting. I am genuinely curious, are these by Chinese people in Mandarin/Cantonese, or your fellow “refugee”?
are these by Chinese people
It could put them in danger if they posted it, we shouldn’t encourage that
Is the situation that dire that a comment like that would put their safety in jeopardy? Genuinely curious
It is not “say gay and go to jail” kind of situation, but LGBTQ community are actively being marginalized, and any form of promotion and organization are likely not paint the participants in favorable light.
One thing that might surprise the west (like the income and cost of living in China) is that Chinese policies are seldom delivered by a publicly avaliable written order, making it hard to find concrete proofs of government wrong doing. This give rises to the word “喝茶” (drink tea), typically means to pressure certain group or individual into submission without a formal procedure or record.
This culture of doing things “under the table” and several crackdown on investigative journalism has led to many inconclusive proof of wrongdoing and some misconception by many people from the west.
However, there are still plenty of evidence that many LGBTQ organizations are forsed to shutdown, non-heteralsexual couple not recieving appropriate benefit, and harassment from officials. Just to list a few,
- LGBTQ society forced to shutdown in top universities: https://bpr.studentorg.berkeley.edu/2022/04/17/the-silenced-lgbtq-students-in-china/
- LGBTQ advocacy group and safe spaces force to shutdown: https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/11/06/china-lgbt-advocacy-government-crackdown/ and https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-beijing-lgbt-center-rcna85528
- Wechat and Weibo mass removal of LGBTQ account: https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/07/07/wechat-lgbt-accounts/ and https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2021/07/netizen-voices-lgbt-groups-metoo-activist-shut-down-by-wechat-weibo/?amp
- TV and video game ban: https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/10/02/china-video-games-gay-effeminate-men-ban/ and https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/09/03/china-masculinity-sissy-men-tv/
- Chinese non-heteralsexual couple required to list each other as “guardian” to recieve basic benefit: https://www.thepinknews.com/2019/08/06/same-sex-couples-china-name-legal-guardians/
- China public hospital conducts LGBTQ conversion therapy, also requires conversion therapy before gender affirming treatment: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2017/11/hrw-urges-china-end-sexual-orientation-conversion-therapy/?amp
- Weaponizes regulation against LGBTQ societies: https://theconversation.com/the-chinese-government-claims-lgbtq-people-are-protected-from-discrimination-our-interviews-with-26-activists-tell-another-story-215158
- Restriction on LGBTQ dating app: https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3189767/founder-blued-chinas-largest-gay-dating-app-steps-down-after
https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/09/03/china-masculinity-sissy-men-tv/
Talks about more than just the tv ban
Not the worst place, you can apply for someone to be your legal guardian as a way to get around same sex marriage
But there are also no protections
How? They already posted it to a site that is almost definitely monitored by the CCP.
Yes, you are right, sorry for not considerring that.
You should really use /s, almost missed it.
no one said it isn’t?
That’s what the whattaboutism implies.
Person talking about how the neighbour’s yard is such a mess and then somebody else pointing out that their own yard is just as much as a mess is pointing out the hypocrisy of that person, rather than whataboutism.
Whataboutism is the reverse - it’s when somebody points out your yard is a mess and you point out that the neighbour’s yard is also a mess.
yeah exactly
they only showed that American social media isn’t any better
