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This guy is already implying that youll like it better if 3 randoms die as 1 loved one, he’s choosing for you already in the explanation 😭😭😭
Yeah, would work better if there was one stranger in the middle
for the longest time, i did know that game theory did not have anything to do with “games” and that it is somehow connected to the prisoners dilemma, but the concept as such wasn’t very clear to me. If you are like my former me, take 30 minutes out of your day and visit https://ncase.me/trust/ to learn and play around with game theory; it’s a great webpage and it’s pretty good fun all around.
I did a few game theory simulations in college and they were always real interesting. In one of them for example, it was a multiplayer game, with multiple interactions. I think it was to simulate global trade basically: you could cooperate with as many players as you want and each time you cooperate you both get a point. If you defect then you get two and they get none. However, all the players could see what the other players are doing, so if you defected they would know and probably would play (trade) with you. The best way to win was to form as many connections as possible and fully cooperate the whole time.
I formed maybe like 20-30 connections with other players and didn’t defect. Each point was worth a few cents or something. So I walked out with a check for like $20-$50 or something. Many players walked out with nothing because they cheated too many people too many times and nobody wanted to trade with them.
Therefore, clearly, the best economic policy is protectionism, tariffs, trade wars, and fucking over both allies and enemies, right? Right?!?
Your simulation seems to only punish selfish actors when that’s not always the case. Doesn’t include natural monopolies, lacks clandestine exploitation, and there’s likely no market capture or saturation. In such a case the only play is to cooperate.
That page is very well done and interesting, thanks for sharing!
For those interested, Veritasium has a very good video on this. It also sort of tells what strategy is optimal to “win”.
Thank you for sharing the link. That webpage is amazing!
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If these are tracks in the US then I just understaff the engineers and maintenance teams and the train derails before I have to make a decision, checkmate.
If these tracks are in the US, so I am. So I shoot the other guy with the gun(s) I usually carry around when I go out and then pull the lever.
Depends on the loved one, tbh 🤷🏼♂️
This is only superficially a prisoner’s dilemma. In a true one, you cannot get a better result for yourself no matter what the other person does, but here if you assume the other person pulled the lever, there is no reason to pull the lever yourself.
To fix this, you can have 4 relatives on the trolley, and 5 of the opposite faction way back on the middle track. Both do nothing, 1 relative of each is killed. One guy switches the lever, their relatives are all fine, other guy loses 5. Both switch, crash with all 8 relatives on the trolley dead.
I see what you’re trying to do and you’re not necessarily wrong, but you’re kinda perpetuating the attitude that inspired someone to make this meme in the first place
I’m not sure I follow. Should this meme’s creator not have been inspired?
Touche. But no, my point was more of a haphazard reflection on how both the Trolley Problem and Prisoner’s Dilemma are (by design) built on the idea of reducing human life and/or morality and empathy down to a math problem. It is a method of thought that has its purposes, sure, but I think too many people make that their default setting, which makes dehumanization more common, even if subconsciously. Idk man, I’m going through some stuff
Edit: Fixed a pretty bad typo
Given that this problem is given during corporate interviews … it probably screens for the requisite level of sociopathy.
wow what an excellent day in the neighbourhood
i sure hope I won’t be faced with an ethical dilemma in the very near future
This was super funny, this person has a great career ahead of her. Very Tim and Eric style obscure indie comedy, I loved it.
This feels too high quality for a shit post.
Gotta make sure your fiber intake is decent so you get good quality shit like this
This isn’t philosophy anymore, it’s just game theory
it’s interdisciplinary.
por qué no los dos
holy prisoner dilemma!
I was thinking the same!
But what is philosophy really?
Not even. Game Theory is supposed to take a lot of stuff into account. Boiling it down to this is insulting and a way to paint situations like proxy wars as immoral.
If you think about this for any length of time and actually imagine this scenario, you realise you don’t pull the lever and it’s not even close.
Wrong. You pick the obviously wrong moral stance and then aggressively yell about it on the internet. The more obvious it becomes that you are wrong, the louder you yell. This protects your ego from introspection.
SHUT UP. THE RIGHT CHOICE IS TO DROP A NUKE ON EVERYONE.
💡
That’s something a lot of people will do for fun.
that right, I’d masturbate on the tracks and on the people tied to the tracks so they are slipery and can slide or bounce to safety. And before you judge me, its the only thing I’m really good at and we should make the most of what we have in life.
Failing that for whatever reason (or maybe in addition to that), I’d asses which of the prospects are lefties and make sure those people in particular live. Sorry centrists and republicans, but we need the votes and some people have to die, but I’m focussed on doing the least harm here.
wildest trolley solution I’ve seen so far lmao (the slippery jon trons)
But then your loved one (mom, dad, sister,child) dies.
You realize this is your family watching you make the decision to have their vehicle run over a loved one? There’s a possibility they all live if you pull it.
Or if you pull it, then they see you make the decision to risk their lives to kill three other people.
What is better, three lives lost or one life lost?
ok but what if the 3 in the middle were avg US swing state voters.
The other side would deal with them then.
Unlike the classic prisoners dilemma, this isn’t a nash equilibrium. When I know that the other person pulls their switch, I’d improve my outcome by not pulling mine. Compare to the prisoners dilemma, where not snitching when the other side snitches earns you five years in prison.
And unlike the original trolley problem, pulling the lever will always kill more people. I’d wager most people wouldn’t pull this lever because of this, but I agree there’s no Nash equilibrium.
Do nothing that way you don’t get to jail for murder. All the pressure goes to the other guy. Sue the railway company, guy who pulled the lever and the creator. Another is find a way not to reach to that point.
I feel like you’re not internalizing that this is a thought experiment.
This is the dumbest thought experiment I’ve ever seen.
Or so you think
I envy you then
Also, it’s too late to pull the lever, you’ll just provoke a crush.
They’ve already both chosen not to pull the lever at this point. Guess they didn’t want to make a wider picture.
More challenging if there’s only one person on the middle tracks.
How much did I like that one guy really.
Are the 5 people on the opposong trolley worthy of death? Will killing them outweigh losing my loved ones?
Or is the one loved one ill save my really hot 1st cousin?
Because with the rest of the family dead, we can live happily ever after without any annoying incest complaints.
ಠ_ಠ
Have these folks seen The Good Place? Or are they just approaching the same conclusion by accident?
By far the smartest show ever written and it’s not even close!
Lmao what. Sure it covers philosophy 101, but not as smart as say, Dark, Mr Robot, Better Call Saul, Watchmen etc.
Those shows are a good way to dip your toes into the subject before you start Rick and Morty.
Yo shhhh, keep it down!!! Rick and Morty is hidden sigma knowledge only. You can’t be sending virgin minds directly to the smartest goatest show of all time like that without any brain training and a Duolingo accreditation of at least 5 languages. Remember what happened to Prometheus? Yeah that will be you if you don’t keep it on the down low.
You need to watch more shows. Don’t get me wrong, I like The Good Place and what they were trying to do with it, but yeah no there’s a lot of other shows that are just as educational and well written that don’t have to do a show-wide reset to start every season
Idk … Andor has a really good message.
For a second there, I really thought you meant
Which relative is on the track and which in the trolley?
Your hot cousin is on the track. What would you do?
Don’t pull the lever, then there’s three thirds of hot cousin to go around regardless of the other person’s decision. Philosophy is easy.
Easy there Solomon
cut the trolley in half, give one half to each of the thirds of the hot cousin
Split the track in half, and ramp up one side, causing the trolley to drive on two wheels, effectively only slicing the legs off of your loved ones.
It says loved ones I’m afraid, can’t sacrifice one in prison I’m afraid.
