The US is wild.
You call yourselves the land of the free, but have to beg your boss to let you have time off that’s owed.
That was a typo, it’s actually the Land of the Fee
Land of the free*
*Terms and conditions may apply
*While supply lasts.
*Offer valid only between Saturday 11:59:59.999999pm and Sunday 12:00:00am.
Too many of us are still awake then. It’s the millionth of a second before 3am.
Freedom is when nazis can freely beat you on the street and cops do nothing. FREEDOM, BABY! 🦅🇺🇸
(Fun fact, I got arrested when I defended myself against a bully in school, ACAB)
It’s a marketing ploy. Not an actual policy.
Some people do but as I said in another comment, I’m informing them not asking.
To be fair, having the government mandate how much time you get off for working 40 hours a week is kind of just codifying the indentured servitude you’re under.
Wow. I’ve seen some shit takes around here, but that one is just outta pocket, you’re gonna have to explain that one
To be fair, I’m not defending having to beg your boss for time off.
In our world we have a simple choice: work for whoever will hire you, or starve and die on the streets. Barring random and uncontrollable acts of charity or the extremely fortunate situation in which you work for yourself.
Now we could go back and forth on where on the spectrum of “you would be working all day miserably farming if it weren’t for your job” and “you should feel blessed to die of black lung in the coal mines cause at least you got to work” we both lie. But, in a society where the majority of work involves “work or die”, our promises to our bosses are very short periods of indentured servitude in a very hyperbolic sense.
Sure, you can quit at any time only to find another job or be taken to jail (we could go into the criminalization of homelessness), but for most people, you’re working for life.
So to say that the government (or employment contract) mandating that you’re owed days of vacation is an expression of freedom is a far cry from my definition of freedom and to me seems only to entrench our status quo by throwing breadcrumbs to us to stop us from getting too agitated.
I was certainly being glib and hyperbolic tho
On the same take, we used to get 15min breaks every 2 or 3 hours. Then the government wrote laws that said we had to get at least 10min breaks every 4 hours. So now we get less because you will only ever get the minimum.
We get less breaks and they have to be shorter than what the average was before.
I’m not against labor laws, but I’ve been working nearly four decades now and I’m still getting bent over every opportunity.
Watch out guys, we have a Temporarily Embarrased Billionare™ in the comment section.
What are you talking about? If the government didn’t require paid leave, you might get … none of it! So the mandate actually makes you … checks notes … less controlled.
That’s only the minimum of paid time off though, and how many hours of a week you work is determined between you and your employer in the form of a contract. If you think that this is indentured servitude, to the state which provides you with taxes and services, then I really don’t know on which planet and or reality you live in.
I still remember putting in vacation at my first job, three months in advance and they still said “well it’s your job to make sure your shifts are covered”. Fuck you, Karen, you make the damn schedule one month at a time, just don’t put me on it that week.
The shirking of responsibility gets me every time cause like if the manager doesent do that then what DO they do?
Seriously. You aren’t really managing your employees if they have to organize resource shortages for you. At my job, I tell my colleagues to just take time off and, like me, list a few close co-workers as people to contact in case of emergencies in their OOO reply. Nothing is life-or-death, so people can deal with waiting. It’s not like anyone is taking off months straight.
It’s rediculous how retail jobs put you through the ringer if you dare to try to stay home while too sick to work (and basically punish you for doing the right thing and calling to notify them you won’t be in and why) but then you get into a professional job and you can sometimes simply not show up and tell nobody and be fine
If it’s the employees job to manage themselves, then they should all be promoted to manager.
Drag isn’t joking. Drag has worked at a company where things were done like that. It wasn’t perfect but it was better than the American model.
I appreciate the bit where you talk in third person, but I feel like you could do something better
Drag doesn’t talk in third person. Drag uses drag/dragself person independent pronouns.
“doesn’t” and “uses” are third person.
Conjugation depends on the individual pronoun, not on the grammatical structure. English isn’t Latin. A lot of people complained about singular they/them because of the conjugation, but we moved past that misunderstanding a decade ago.
If conjugation depends on the individual pronoun, the pronoun you used was third person since that’s the conjugation you used. They/them is also third person and singular and plural are conjugated the same, so the comparison doesn’t apply.
To be clear, please use any and all pronouns you’re comfortable with. But don’t write a third person sentence and insist it’s first person.
Conjugation doesn’t depend on the grammatical structure. Not directly, and not through the pronoun. Drag will prove it: they/them and you/you use the same conjugation, but are in different persons. You don’t think “they” is a second person pronoun, do you?
This is an incredibly stupid social experiment
Nah, but your urge to police it is interesting
Are they policing it? I haven’t seen a single unarmed person get shot yet.
Haha but also yes still cop-in-head behaviour
Question 4 drag
If drag had access to BoringNormie Pills, would drag take them?
(Assume they would permanently or temporarily reset identity to a highly common one)
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Have you tried looking into why the
Cool, someone playing Freud over a single comment.
harmless way drag refers to dragself
Fucking lol @ someone either trolling or dumb enough to fall for the trolling.
makes you immediately daydream about violence?
Pretty obvious my point was that this is the shit that bullies get erect about. I would never ever willingly talk to someone so offputting, let alone be violent toward them.
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That’s a lot of copium you got there.
You seem clueless
Sounds kinda like a co-op, is there a difference?
Yeah, there was a big boss we all answered to. He just trusted us to manage ourselves instead of dedicating any employees to management. We had HR and Payroll, but they didn’t tell us what to do.
Drag is lead to understand Valve uses a similar structure.
Drag doesn’t really fit you. Let’s try something else. How about…Coco?! Yeah you seem like a Coco. Anyone else agree?
Sure isn’t a Chanel
Should have replied “it is your obligation to give me HR paycheck”
I got fired from a job because I took my already approved time off and told them I literally couldn’t come in when they called me the day my PTO started, because I was already out of state.
Pretty sure that’s wrongful termination
You can be fired for almost anything.
They just may have to pay unemployment.
There are still limits, even in at will and right to work states there are some protections.
Revoking approved time off after it’s already started is definitely a valid reason for a wrongful termination lawsuit. Especially if you have evidence of previous bullshit.
That’s why you should always get everything that seems even remotely bullshit in writing, and have your own backups.
Any time someone is terminated without cause, the employer simply doesn’t provide a reason for termination. They’re not required to.
Not telling someone why you are firing them isn’t a magical lawsuit avoidance option. In a wrongful termination lawsuit, the courts take context into account specifically because of shitty companies/managers trying to hide behind exactly that.
Just because they don’t give the reason doesn’t mean the reason can’t be proven.
You can’t be fired for unlawful reasons. Being fired for taking an agreed upon vacation is illegal retaliation.
They just lie about it. You get your unemployment granted. Especially in the shittiest jobs this is how it goes.
Sounds like you haven’t been in the American work force.
They can fire you for any reason. Or no reason. Nothing matters because if you’re a wage slave nobody cares.
Plus they probably made you sign a waiver to work there saying that you couldn’t ever sue them for any reason.
They can fire you for any reason. Or no reason.
They cannot legally fire you for any reason, though yes, they can fire you for no reason. The distinction often doesn’t matter, but sometimes they’re stupid enough to put the illegal reason in writing
They can write whatever they want on the waiver, but it won’t hold up against provably illegal retaliation.
They did have to pay unemployment, but they tried really hard to discourage me from seeking it, saying I likely wasn’t even eligible for it and not to even bother filing.
Lovely. This one weird trick saves thousands and only costs people who don’t matter.
Wow, that’s shitty of them… Like, what do you even lose for trying? They knew they were going to have to pay up if you applied, those bastards were trying to gaslight you.
I hate corpos so damned much
Yeah, but it can’t be in direct retalliation, it must be based on work performance. Normally the former is hard to prove, but sometimes it’s obvious.
That’s simply not accurate in 49 out of 50 states.
Basically, you can be fired for any reason aside from membership in a protected class.
But if you are terminated without cause, you can collect unemployment, which the further employer is required to pay.
‘oh, I’m sorry did you think that was a request?’
Exactly. It’s not a request, it’s information.
Well Shane, I wasn’t asking, I was informing you of some time off.
Told them I would be in hospital, had it denied
Was in hospital anyway
That’s illegal, you are guaranteed at least two weeks of (unpaid) medical leave whether yoou’re the King or a city street sweeper.
I’m still amazed that people just accept this.
What happens, if you are ill for a longer? You can’t just work ethic an illness away.
And it’s also stupid from the company’s perspective. If someone has the flu and you have them come in - well - everyone will be sick and everyones performance will suffer.
Who thought this is acceptable, let alone a good idea?
And it’s also stupid from the company’s perspective. If someone has the flu and you have them come in - well - everyone will be sick and everyones performance will suffer.
You underestimate capitalism
Unpaid? What country are you from? Zimbabwe?
Poor ILikeBoobies
In Japan, by law it is a declaration. You use paid leave, you do not ask to use it.
That depends entirely on your job:
High court rules vital Shinkansen drivers can’t dictate days off
America’s Supreme court ain’t the only shitty one lately 😩
Sounds to me that there wasn’t anyone or atlesst not enough drivers for the Shinkansen, so it make totally sense in my eyes that the employer had to fix the schedules when it’s employees weren’t able to do so themselves.
Rare exceptions are interesting,and the law still applies to nearly everyone nearly all the time.
Been in this position before - fuck your job and live your life. If they were such dicks about it then do you REALLY wanna work there anyways?
stomach rumbles
Well if you don’t then you don’t have health insurance or money to buy food.
There are plenty of places where they don’t lie to you about PTO benefits, pay, and have some group insurance plan/program.
Get with the program. We’re here to whine about capitalism and how we have no choices. God forbid anyone fight back, use capitalism against them.
“They gave me a shit raise!” Or none at all.
OK. Found another job paying 30% more.
“They turned down my PTO!”
OK. Found another job paying double, in salary and benefits.
FFS, these idiot employers are paying you to gain experience and pack your resume. Fuck them over. I know a dude that job hopped from changing oil to $120K in 8 years. I hopped from $10 to $33, with fat benefits and PTO in the same time. Turns out you have to be competent and work hard.
Learned helplessness occurs when an individual continuously faces a negative, uncontrollable situation and stops trying to change their circumstances, even when they have the ability to do so.
…and when their social media enforces their helplessness.
Are you really arguing that hard work gets you good jobs and good pay in the United States?
Of course? And even if you only move laterally, you can still ditch the asshole employers.
Please, keep telling yourself it’s hopeless. Curl into a ball and cry. Less competition for me.
Hey you little bitch wannabe capitalist. I’m not in a ball crying, I’m making money like you’ll never see from the labor of my brain and my hands. You know what I do with it? I help my family and community, and get guns and ammo.
Unless you’re just a nepo failed abortion. Go assume things about someone’s life and flaunt your privilege somewhere else.
I mean, to some degree it actually does. Sure life isn’t fair, you can do right and still fail and such, but overall, if you play your cards right and make sure to learn and present yourself well you can absolutely build a resume and job hop up the career and economic ladder.
Hell I’ve even had the displeasure of working with someone who literally only had interview and resume skills, was incapable of doing any semblance of the job he was hired to perform and appeared to simply job hop as soon as a given job caught on that he didn’t have any of the skills his resume indicated he had
Edit for clarity
Just listen to yourself. You’re in a social stratification that has blinded you. You’re using english about work in a way that is incomprehensible to the average person in the US.
Even your triumphant story of getting someone fired because they lied on their resume stinks of privilege.
Trust me, you’re much closer to us laborers than you are to your rich-ass owners, and they’ll flick you off their boots like a fly.
Bro who hurt you?
You get health insurance?
I get mine through the state cause im autistic and poor.
That’s the gamble you take. Hopefully you’d have some money saved up before doing it, of course!
You can’t accept me using the time I’ve earned? Should I get approval for how I spend my paycheck too?
It wasn’t a request, I was letting you know so you can plan. See you when I get back.
Funny story, my wife told her boss she needed time off for our honeymoon as we drove to our wedding. She got it, but they teased her about it for a month.
Back when I worked a shitty retail job we would usually hire a few people on fixed term/fixed hours over the Christmas/New Year peak (ie, you get minimum 20 hours a week for 16 weeks starting November 1st), first couple of weeks are mostly training, then peak, then cover into the new year while the full time people take some leave.
Had one guy who got to the end of his training then informed management that he would need leave approved starting now and right through peak because his family was going to an expensive ski resort but that he’d happily pick up some more hours when he got back. Got really salty when he was told that that wasn’t going to happen, and he was welcome to go anyway but shouldn’t expect a job when he got back.
More people should get hired, go through training, then leave.
United Healthcare workers:
US labor Laws suck shit compared to the 1st World.
*compared to the 1st World
I don’t understand this.
I have Canada and USA coworkers and when they ask for time off approval, they usually get it according to a per team schedule.
We know what quarters are going to be the busiest before hand so everyone is encouraged to take time off when it is less demanding.
You can also take time off in busiest times.
In both cases, you are asked to request anyone from your team to backup you up (obviously available when you are not)
I think many people (me included) feel that it shouldn’t be the employee’s responsibility to find shift coverage.
Agreed. It would make sense to me if managing schedules was a job for the manager.
Are you paid to do scheduling? What if coworkers say no? … Those are two serious potential problems.
I would default to assuming that this is a professional job, so making sure you’re covered in case something goes wrong is expected and also reasonable to expect from coworkers. If there’s conflicts (I don’t think I can support this while you’re gone because I’m gonna be too busy with x), you go to your manager and ask them to figure it out. But by default, it’s likely you know who is best equipped to support because they are already working with you.
No, nothing of the sorts.
As part of the team we all know, usually, the details of the projects we are working on, details that we cannot expect a manager to follow or know for each project, because there are a lot of details and many projects. A lot of them overlap in discovery, development, execution and deployment and also have different priorities.
And it is my understanding that managers also need to prioritize given sudden issues, emergency requests, and so on.
Anyways, with that info, we can decide who is the best fit for it given the experience they have had or not with specific projects.
Also it is usually not that hard.
You don’t get a backup 2 days before your time off, indeed, more often than not, it is asked with a lot of anticipation.
Also, most of the time when you go on time off, you are encouraged to have all of your projects deliverables ready for when you are out.
That way, your teammates doing the backup are just checking in on the project and available for general questions.
Personally, I like to leave documentation as well for my backups so they know what to expect. It’s not strange to have changes that imply more work for the backup so the extra context helps a lot.
Right. If everyone is super supportive and there are never emergencies or vacation scheduling conflicts, this all works. And the rest of the time, you end up having to deal with bullshit that the bosses should be handling. And hey, if your workplace is magically different from most others, and nothing ever gets funky, great!
No, they’re saying if things go wrong the managers do fix it, but it’s a lot easier to plan coverage yourself. This person clearly isn’t working a taco bell.
Contrast everything about their post to, for example https://lemm.ee/comment/17126938
