“Israel has a right to self-defence, but it has to be done within international law … cutting water, cutting electricity, cutting food to a mass of civilian people is against international law,” said EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell on Tuesday (10 October).
He repeated the view more than once in his press briefing. “The Palestinian people are also suffering,” he added.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. This cycle of violence and repression needs to stop.
It’s not an eye for an eye though. Israeli atrocities over the decades dwarf what has been inflicted upon them by Palestine and Hamas.
You go far back in history enough and we can be here all day over who is guiltier
In this case you don’t need to go back “in history.”
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Why is it political taboo to call them both monsters, and advocate for not supporting either until they can sort out the differences themselves?
Because there’s an obvious power imbalance and not picking a side just favors the already powerful?
Yeah. If we say “let them fight it out” then Israel is going to roll in and kill all the Palestinians.
Followed closely by war with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan and Iran. Escalation is bad for everyone.
Do we get to go back far enough to the part where israel admitted to funding hamas in 2019?
You guys know this isnt a conspiracy, right? Israeli politicians flat out said this in interviews?
source?
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Israel specifically targeted and funded extremists to stamp out non violent palestinian politics.
Israel created this. This is what they bankrolled. It was the intended outcome to justify declaring war.
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Hamas knew what would happen, they wanted israel to declare war. They got exactly what they want.
So did israel. They wanted hamas to attack so badly, they ignored shared intel that the attack was coming a week in advance. Israel also wanted an excuse to declare war.
Israel wants to use the war as an excuse to kill non hamas palestinians. Thats why they bombed the refugee route to egypt that they explicitly told civilians to follow.
Hamas knows israel wants this, and hopes it will radicalize the survivors and bolster their ranks. They think it will be good recruitment.
What did I expect? I expected israel to jump at the chance to finish off its genocide. Youre a self proclaimed subjugated native, you also should have seen this coming.
What I dont get is why you are cheering on genocide. You are watching your peoples history on repeat. And up and down, you are cheering for them to die.
Holy hand-waving-atrocities Batman
pow
ZING
boof
Welcome to the human condition. Justice isn’t real, but that doesn’t mean we can abandon it. It’s impossible to undo the damage of the past, but if you turn a blind eye to it then nobody will follow you into the future.
It’s not an eye-for-an-eye because we shouldn’t consider targetting civilians an option. If you want to call militias that target civilians terrorists, be consistent regardless of what uniform they are wearing.
This is the only take that actually matters. If Ukraine responded to Russia by bombing villages and shooting civilians, they would not have such near-worldwide support. If Israel wants to truly be better than “savages” then they need to act like it.
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Probably should not consider the actions of a British appointed Mufti in a League of Nations mandated Palestine in the interest of not being disingenuous.
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You have shit for brains
It is so sad when people run out of arguments and devolve into kindergarten insults.
It’s so sad when fellow shit for brains white knight for each other over an argument implying that a unilaterally appointed leader by a colonial power represents popular wills and attitudes of the colonised. Especially sad when a fellow shit for brains whitewashes Holocaust by implying that I should waste my time repudiating an argument saying that an anti-semetic Mandatory Palestinian leader had a meaningful enough hand in the Holocaust. Heartbreaking when they want me to rim their fellow shit for brains’ assholes despite blatant Islamophobia.
So it an eye for an eye from Palestinian side and should be stopped!
Would be better to discuss this in terms grounded in reality rather than papering over idioms with clever gotchas.
That’s the point. The game is to be the last man standing with at least partial vision.
It is a pretty clown face move to attach those that supply your water, electricity and fuel.
That’s slave mentality, dude
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The Final Solution, eh?
By that logic, the other way this ends is the dissolution of israel.
They cant seem to stop themselves from murdering and pillaging their neighbors, right? So they have to go. Right? Thats matching your logic just fine.
they really could have just left them alone. It would have been exactly the same result with the Palestinians blaming those in Palestine for their issues.
instead they meddle and build illegal settlements.
Found the Zionist
There’s another possibility.
Lebanon gets involved. Then Iran. Then the US. Then Iraq. Then Afghanistan. Then Russia. On and on until it’s WW3
But no one wants to talk about that
Yes I’m sure we need to care about great power Afghanistan “getting involved” in Gaza. We should also be wary of Mongolia, and probably Lesotho as well.
Russia/Iran/US/EU are all already “involved” in with Israel. US/EU/Israel want to culturally genocide palestine and Russia/Iran want to hurt the US/EU. This isn’t ww3, and if push comes to shove none of the major players are going to start ww3 over Israel or Palestine.
Good luck stopping a millennia old feud
Damn, 1948 was a thousand years ago? Time is weird, I guess.
If you want to just count recent history, jews started buying land and returning to Palestine in the late 1800s. They started flooding in after some anti-semitic pogroms in the early 20th century and things have been spicy since.
Do you think the region of Palestine and Arabs/Jews were created in 1948?
This isn’t a conflict that was going on in the Ottoman period. This is a recent conflict and this attempt to turn it into a thousands year old religious war is bullshit. This is a colonial project where the goal is to take land. Very material in nature. That project has been in place since 1948.
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Quite the opposite. I feel the same as you, both sides should be allowed to stay. What’s done is done and ethnically cleansing the area is obviously a horrific crime that oughtn’t be advocated for in either direction. Where we differ is that I see the two state solution as setting the region up for the same conflict down the road. After decades of settlement the areas which would make up the Palestinian state would be non-contiguous swiss cheese. It would be an untenable situation.
Instead, a singular, secular, egalitarian state with universal suffrage and human rights guaranteed for all would be a challenging path, but I think ultimately a more stable one. And a path which would leave room for healing in the future.
Bulshit. The diaspora started in 63BC, under Roman rule. Everybody could live peacefully side by side in one country, save for the religious nutheads pushing their hatred rhetoric
Are you really saying that Holocaust happened because of the Palestinians.
Jews and Muslims were literally brother before all this western bullshit, so come on.
Unbelievable 🙁
You might want to double check who kicked out the Jews and started the diaspora.
Bro you need to learn better history. Like seriously even if you support Israel what you’re saying is making zero sense.
Debatable. The people who think it’s a millennia-long feud are counting from when the Romans threw the Israelites out of Israel according to the Bible. For them, protecting Israel at all costs is a religious thing, and their religion has existed for millennia, so 💁
Islam hadn’t even come about at that time, however, so people casting it as a religious war between Jews and Muslims come across as especially disingenuous if they try to frame it that way. Hell, the Romans hadn’t even Christianized at that time. Is it a war between Judaism and Paganism? C’mon.
You and I both know that, but the Bible - thumping loonies who support Israel’s corrupt government right or wrong don’t. They literally think that if the U.S. ever wavers or gives up support of the Israeli government in any way, it’ll bring on the end times and trigger the prophecies in the Book of Revelations.
🤔 I never used to put much stock into the argument that religion is dangerous, but seeing how it affects everyone else politically, I will have to concede that point. It is very dangerous to civil society. If that’s a authoritarian thing to say, it doesn’t really matter – the truth is inherently authoritarian in the minds of the weak.
There have actually been plenty of periods of peace and tolerance in the middle east over the millennia. When these feuds break out people go back and dig up ancient reasons to justify them, but the feuds themselves are new and are not contiguous with those ancient ones.
Ehhhhh…when everyone reporting on it and everyone involved all acknowledge these old reasons as the root of the issue, I’m inclined to believe them over some comment on Lemmy.
As I said:
When these feuds break out people go back and dig up ancient reasons to justify them
So they say now that “we’re doing this because a thousand years ago their ancestors did our ancestors dirty”, but there were periods in between then and now where it was water under the bridge and people got on with their lives.
If you think that people in those regions have literally been killing each other every day for over a thousand years, how is anyone actually left at this point?
Just because there may be periods of peace doesn’t mean these deep rooted issues just no longer matter.
So conflicts like this can never actually end? Any peace is an illusion, just a pause before the next turn of the wheel? I don’t have such a pessimistic view.
There have been conflicts like this throughout history that really have permanently faded off back into the past, with the modern descendants living perfectly fine together and no longer concerned about those original causes of the conflict. If they end up with some new reason to fight in the future they may fight again, of course, and they may even dredge up those old conflicts as part of their propaganda. But it would be a new conflict, not the old one reborn. They’re not going to just up and start fighting again for no new reason.
Not a millenia old feud. A one-centure-GB-US-Iran engeneered old feud.
Heard a lot of shit Iran’s supposed to be involved with in the region, but it’s the first time I hear them being accused of having engineered the Israel -Palestine conflict. How do you figure that? I would’ve understood accusing France for their involvement in sykes-picot, or even the Turks since the Ottomans administered the region in early 20th century. But Iran started supporting the Palestinians after the 1979 revolution, before that the Shah very much supported Israel. So I have a hard time seeing how they could be blamed for engineering the conflict.
Haven’t read a history book I take it, if you think the fight over Palestine is a new thing. I guess you’ve also never heard of the Crusades
What side were the Jews on in the crusades?
Haven’t read a history book I take it
lol right back atcha chief.
Crusades
lol
You are aware that the region known as Palestine and the Arab people existed before 1948 right?
I can say that about literally every piece of land on the planet.
So can you. You literally did, in a comment in this exact thread
Exactly. We can say that about anywhere, and many people can claim Palestine as their ancestral home. It’s in the past and that’s over now. Sucks but my people went through it. Get every white and European off of my continent and ancestral lands and I’d be more sympathetic. P.s that’s what makes me laugh too about all this, North American kids bitching about Israel colonizing Palestine, meanwhile my native ass is sitting there wondering if they get the irony.
Israel isn’t going away, the people who think the answer is getting rid of it are delusional.
Lol, no, not quite. Nice try, but theres a difference between “every piece of land has bloodshed” and “a decade ago is technically the past, so you need to excuse all the war crimes we committed!”
No one gives a shit about your native ass crying “they killed people before, why should we save their lives??” Your ancestral injustice does not justify modern injustice.
Just admit youre racist and shuuut the fuuuck uuuup, no one wants your opinion
Always falling back on racism is why people don’t support you
You literally said, in this thread, that youre native born who had your ancestors land taken from you and no one stopped that, so why should anyone help here?
Thats racial, dude. You said that. Im not falling back on anything, Im pointing the fucked up things you said.
They didn’t say anything racial
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Israel isn’t just denying Hamas water, they are denying Palestinians water. That includes children and infants and uninvolved innocents.
Have they considered not trying to take over land that isn’t theirs?
The children living in Gaza don’t have that option. Hopefully evacuation corridors are operational.
Evacuation to where?
Anywhere that isn’t getting genocided by IDF.
Name the place.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
You’re making vague statements that the children of Gaza should be evacuated, but that’s not a solution unless you can tell me where they would be evacuated to.
There are two and a half million people in the Gaza Strip. What place is going to accept two and a half million Palestinian refugees? Bear in mind that millions of Palestinians have already ended up as refugees throughout the region and that is already considered a huge problem. Nobody wants even more to deal with. So what country? Even if there were magical teleporters to get them there and everyone was willing to leave their homes forever, who’s going to take them in and support them?
Few people are worried about hamas. The concern is for the women and children. The people with no say in any of this. It’s not a crime to refuse to resupply an enemy, it is a crime to starve innocent people.
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Actually the only hope of truly lasting peace is the dissolution of Israel and the creation of a new state that doesn’t limit citizenship and suffrage along ethnic or religious lines.
I doubt that would work. If history is to be of any indication then Palestinians also have no desire to co-exist with Israel. If the sides were reversed Palestine would be doing the exact same things as Israel is doing. Arabs want Israel gone and it’s been clear since the state of Israel was officially founded in 1948.
Them kick em both out, bomb Jerusalem, move on.
Just take all the Israelis out of that region and give them Ohio.
This. Israel never should have been there in the first place. It’s stolen land, ruled by a tyrannical apartheid regime.
Noone wins a war of occupation. You either learn to live with conquered peoples and give them access tibequal rights (Roman empire) or completely erase the local population (Europeans in North America).
Reprogram? What exactly does that look like for curiosities sake. Because another ethnic group of Muslims, the Uyghurs, have had china attempting to “reprogram” them. And that has been pretty well universally condemned as an attempt at cultural genocide.
Also, decimating hamas… how? By bombing Palestinian families? By depriving their hospitals of electricity and water? By, to quote Netanyahu the bastard that he is, “turning Gaza into a desert island”?
Same rhetoric as German occupiers claiming that they would not execute civilian hostages as long as Resistance fighters would give themselves up. Sorry for the Goldwyn point but you made it a low hanging fruit.
There’s a reason they’re fighting. If you wanna know what it is, take a look at the West Bank.
You are talking about an area of the world that is nearly 50% children.
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Get this racist bullshit outta here, the middle east is literally one of the cradles of civilization and throughout its history has been a place of tolerance and learning, the barbarity overwhelmingly comes from the outside
You’re also using an example of one of the earliest law codes we know to show barbarity, fucking unreal
The UN and EU consider lots of things Israel does illegal. We just don’t do anything about it and they don’t care.
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The problem I have with the “both sides” argument is while I agree we should not approve of Hamas’ actions, Israel routinely murders civilians without consequence. We tut and tsk but we still send them basically unlimited aid and approval.
Yes both sides behave badly but one side does so with our explicit support.
Don’t forget how Israel sells world-class spyware to despots and dictators, who use it to terrorise journalists and political opponents.
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IDF soldiers have murdered plenty of children. It is routine and I don’t care if they are protesting, they are entitled to protest oppression.
Hamas are disgusting and Israel are cunts but Hamas is because of what Israel does.
Well if you casually leave out that part it becomes a lie by omission. And there’s a reason you have to use this lie both to yourself and to others. It has a whole different ring to it when you say “IDF regularly shoot teenagers throwing molotov cocktails in protest” instead of “routinely murdering children”.
Siblings Ali and Mayar ed-Din, who were killed in an IDF airstrike on May 9, 2023
Damn teenagers get younger with every cull.
Do you believe the pilot was targeting these two kids?
Mohammed Tamimi is the youngest Palestinian killed in the conflict this year (June 2023)
Shot in the head by Israeli forces.
He was 2.
Sitting in a car caught in a gunfight where freedom fighters attacked the IDF. Do you believe they knew/saw he was in the car from that distance?
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Yeah they absolutely did, by teaching the people that shit was normal by doing it to them for generations. Murdering civilians who are celebrating is just how they say hi, so they shouldn’t be surprised pikachu face when they do it right back to them.
When you say ‘routinely murders civilians’, in a lot of cases we’re talking about protestors throwing rocks or molotovs at police or soldiers. Or when Hamas is firing missiles from a schoolyard or the roof of a hospital.
Don’t forget when they’re committing the crime of being born on land Israeli settlers want.
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We (the EU at least) also send a lot of aid to Palestinians.
Israel should be sanctioned and decolonized like South Africa was.
And I, for one, believe that that would have happened a long time ago if the Palestinians had followed the Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi playbook.
Perhaps I am wrong. Like the rest of the world, I also don’t have the solution for this quagmire.
The experiment has actually been running already. The Gaza Strip is run by Hamas, which is violent and pushes back against Israel however they can. The West Bank is run by Fatah, which has been attempting to keep good relations with Israel and work with them.
Despite that, the West Bank has seen a continuing encroachment of illegal Israeli settlers, continuing violence directed at Palestinians, both by the settlers moving in there and by the Israeli army. The reason the border with Gaza was so ill-defended was because Netanyahu had moved much of the force usually stationed there into the West Bank. Palestinian deaths in the West Bank has been rising.
I don’t think the Mahatma Ghandi approach is likely to work in the Middle East. At least no better than any other approach people have been trying has been working there.
Development aid, not weapons as the west supplies to Israel. But otherwise you’re right. The whole region should be disarmed.
The only way to disarm “the whole region” would be to basically level all of it and make it totally uninhabitable.
That thought also crossed my mind.
I’m not saying it’s the right move
But it would solve a whole lot of issues.
Has anyone ever heard of BDS?!?
The US sends aid to palestine as well, just nowhere near as much as we do to israel.
And there isn’t a good solution. No matter what, everybody will be mad. Mad and not violent would be nice, though.
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Thing also is that those people were also hated during thier time and also called terrorists. There’s no good options for a leader sadly.
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A lot of people seem the think he was only regarded well once released from prison. I certainly didn’t know much about him until then.
Yet Only Fools and Horses was made in 1981, and they lived in Nelson Mandela House. So even in the UK we knew South Africa was on the wrong side of history. And we should know, we wrote most of it…
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So were the IRA…
And yet now here we are with Sinn Fein holding elected positions.
At some point there has to be dialogue otherwise you just keep killing one another.
As opposed to the IDF that’s been terrorizing Palestinians constantly?
It’s terrorists in both sides. Unfortunately civilians are the ones caught in the crossfire.
As opposed to the resistants (including many Jews) during WW2 who were literally called terrorists by Nazis ?
They dont need a Palestinian Mandela to stop military and civil aid and cooperation when Israel commits war crimes.
The West called Mandela a terrorist until he won and they killed MLK
So
And Gandhi was a black-hating Mussolini sympathiser.
This is the sort of thing that reminds me never to trust the accepted wisdom of internet groups.
Gandhi after being educated in England was only a little less racist then everyone else when he first went to South Africa and made the famous comment you’re referring to… He then had his awakening against oppression and began to fight for an end to racism, one of the main popular scandals against Gandhi in South Africa was that the medical corp he set up would give aid to whoever needed it first regardless of rank, colour or ethnicity. The rest of his life he wrote and fought for the rights of all.
But of course ‘popular person was actually bad’ is a fun hot take so of course it’s going to be banded around without any nuance.
The UN condemns Israel as a pastime activity. Nobody in Israel cares what they say at this point.
Because they are the West’s military outpost in the Middle East A
I guess sanctions only make sense when Israel is out of the picture.
Obviously illegal. Collective punishment is a war crime and makes Israel a monster. Imagine if there was a murderer in your building and the feds blew the entire building up.
Israel is willingly lead by a monster.
“The only democracy in the Middle East”
Didn’t you just describe Putin’s warm up run in the late ninties?
Remember when they did this?
As is punishing all Russian passport holders for the action of the government. So it’s either both EU and Israel are monsters or neither is.
There’s a bit of false equivalency here methinks
“Collective punishment is a war crime”. Except for Palestinians and Russians, of course. And anybody we disagree with. Fuck those civilians.
We are hypocrites. We have double standards.
I am just pointing it out.
Can we agree that “not letting people with Russian passport travel in NATO countries”
And “Slaughtering civilians en masse in retaliation to a terrorist attack”
Are just a wee bit different as far “collective punishment” goes?
You missed the point :
Russia invades and terrorises the Ukrainian civilians. We punish Russian civilians aka collective punishment.
Hamas invades Israel and terrorises Israeli civilians. Israel punishes Gaza civilians aka collective punishment.
In the first case we are OK. In the second case we scream at Israel (the OP post) “Collective punishment is war crime!!”
We. Are. Hypocrites.
……you’re comparing passports to murdering civilians.
Something tells me you still are not getting the point about collective punishment. But hey, you won’t be the first person who can’t see the hypocrisy in all of us.
Launching missiles across borders is different than securing your own borders. You can’t possibly really be trying to equate the two?
“Collective punishment is a war crime”. Except for Palestinians and Russians, of course. And anybody we disagree with. Fuck those civilians.
We are hypocrites. We have double standards.
I am just pointing it out.
Hmmm let’s stay on topic. I didn’t say I support collective punishment of Palestine or anyone. I said missiles aren’t the same thing as border restrictions, because they clearly aren’t. Do you actually disagree?
As a punished Russian living in Lomonosov, let me explain you what has changed for us since this “punishment” started:
Absolutely nothing.
(Oh, yes, Coke bottles are now green, instead of red.)
This is not valid in all cases as I know multiple Russians and those living in EU continue to do so with no issue and those living in RU say it doesn’t affect them. You can even find interview with random RU citizens in RU and they all say it doesn’t affect them or that they want to attack UA BC Nato boarder is too close.
You missed the point :
Russia invades and terrorises the Ukrainian civilians. We punish Russian civilians aka collective punishment.
Hamas invades Israel and terrorises Israeli civilians. Israel punishes Gaza civilians aka collective punishment.
In the first case we are OK. In the second case we scream at Israel (the OP post) “Collective punishment is war crime!!”
We. Are. Hypocrites.
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Ursula von der Leyen was against Russians destroying the energy infrastructure of Ukraine.
The same Ursula supports energy blockade of Gaza by Israel.
If you don’t see a hypocrisy from our leaders of the west, you brainwashed.
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I don’t think I missed the point though.
I’m ststating that Russians don’t seem to be directly afected aside from having their favorite EU vacation destinations accessible via France or Turkey instead directly from Moscow. It means that so called collective punishment was either ineffective or so mild, that it had almost no effect on dayly lives of citizens.
You compare this with bombing city, being cut out of water, food, medicine and energy.
If anything, Russians collectively punished Ukrainians by shelling,detroying their energy and tradic infrastructure to make winter as bad as possible for UA.
Oh I love allegories. Let me try.
Imagine there was a murderer in your building. But he is not really interested in murdering you, he keeps shooting at some other people you also hate. The feds have tried to go into the building to extract the murderer, but his friends and you lynched the feds when they tried. The murderer has stockpiled his guns in the building and the feds figure that if they can’t get to the murderer at least they can destroy his guns and vantage point from which he is firing at people. They don’t really want to destroy the building but the murderer is actively trying to kill people and the people he is trying to kill demands action.
You receive a text message that the building you are in will be destroyed shortly. You want to leave, but now the murderer says he will kill you if you do.
It is a very silly thing to think that having a “civilian” stay in a legitimate military target ( rocket launcher and or rocket storage ) makes it a place that is untouchable!
And then you left and srill the rocket kills you even when you ate not in the building anymore
Are you telling me there are people being told their building will be blown up who leave the building to go stand just a few meters away on the street it sits on?
There wan an incident where people were told to evacuate and then the evacuation site was bombed, yes
How far away from the building did they evacuate?
Not excatly like that. They were told to evacuate to a particular place were they will be secure because supposedly Isael wouldn’t strike… and then, they strike that place anyway.
Yeah okay that’s fucked, that undermines IDF claims completely.
Palestinians don’t get text warnings. Their warning of bombs is just smaller bombs.
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YES. Isreal warns it’s own people of all of that. The people of Palestine gets none of that. Their warning is smaller bombs.
I mean, I did a quick Google search. The first result says otherwise.
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“the cost of living in a terrorist society”
If Hamas orders civilians to stay in buildings that will be bombed, those lives are taken by Hamas, not Israel.
100% agreed
Well, no shit. And nothing will be done about it.
Not directed at OP
Israel’s actions are a direct consequence of what Hamas did," Borrell’s spokesman had said in Brussels earlier the same day.
Uhh, I think you meant to say “Hamas’ actions are a direct consequence of what Israel has been doing to Gaza”
You really wouldn’t gather this by looking at the media churn. It’s pro Israel to with it’s foot to the floor. If you dare voice distention, you are labeled to be an anti Semite. This successful tactic has been a go to for years. For Israel to know true peace, they need to dump its current leadership. I won’t see this happen in my lifetime.
I don’t know what media you read, but this has not been my experience with The Intercept, Aljazera, and Democracy Now
I think you answered your own question… None of those are “media churn” AKA mainstream media, but are instead alternative independent media outlets.
It both is the case. But it should be really obvious to anyone that even a horrific terrorist attack doesn’t just absolve Israel from international law.
“Jungle” Borell still in peak colonialist form.
Jesus Christ. 1200 civilians died. You are actually impossible
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Hamas is Gaza’s government and military. Yes, they’ve committed war crimes and many call them terrorists.
The IOF is Israel’s military. Yes, they’ve committed war crimes and many call them terrorists.
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They never allowed shit. Mossad influence put power to Hamas and Fatah. Both currupt, after Hamas got power they never allowed another election in 17 years.
It’s the same thing in China. If you try and fix the government you get killed.
You’re proving my point and also pointing out why Israel is liberating Palestine from Hamas.
Yes. They put into power a currupt government to destabilize the area while they steal their land.
No, you kill thousands of innocent people and say they were terrorists or helping terrorists.
I’m all for open discussions. But… shouldn’t one know the basic facts on a topic before seemingly expressing an opinion on the matter? You clearly need to take an unbiased look at the situation.
You do not kill hundreds of innocent people and blame it on oppression.
The oblivious irony of such a statement.
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Why do you expect an argument? I’m pointing out what seems to me as a flaw in reasoning based on what seems to be a lack of understanding of the situation.
That’s the thing Mann I don’t misunderstand the situation… You do. The atrocities that Hamas is responsible for is only punishable via death with war comes civilian casualties until we can figure out a way to only kill military personnel. This is literally collateral damage that is inevitable… Israel is doing the right thing Hamas is a terrorist organization Land is not owned by any society. It is owned by the power of the society at the time of its being I know you don’t understand what I’m saying and that’s OK let’s just agree to disagree.
I doubt I’m anything like you, and I also doubt I think like you. I’ve spent my life always critical of what I think, always allowing myself to be wrong. So I don’t look at this situation with the gut feeling and emotion you seem to have. I look at humans, and human behavior. I’m skeptical of any news and media, especially if there is reason to suspect an agenda.
This is literally collateral damage that is inevitable… Israel is doing the right thing Hamas is a terrorist organization Land is not owned by any society. It is owned by the power of the society at the time
Each of those sentences combined, paints such a strong picture, that I’m surprised you cannot see it for what it is.
So again, you have no argument against the facts. Thats good. See, educating you wasn’t that hard.
You obviously dont know your history. This all started when Britain made shady deals with a bunch of countries during the first world war. And even before that Israel was on that land before there was ever a Palestine.
Palestinians have been living there for hundreds of years, it is their home. The Isreali settlers started showing up 70 years ago and forced the inhabitants out of their houses. Do you seriously think that Jewish people deserve that land because of the religion of its inhabitants in ancient roman times?
You do know their were always arab jews in tbe region. Just saying from Morroco to Yemen but with Israel’s creation, jews were expelled from every Arab nation. Only Iran let those who wanted to stay in an islamist country.
When were Jews expelled for every Arab nation? I don’t think that’s true. Like you said “there were always Arab Jews in the region” but they were a minority. The modern Israeli citizens are mostly immigrants though.
That surprises me. I thought sharia law demands that you let peaceful infidels stay as long as they don’t practice their infidelity in public and pay the jizyah. I mean, it obviously sucks and is tailored in a manner that infidels are leaving, but there is no forced relocation as in zionism.
If you go by the Quran Jews aren’t even called infidels. They are considered People of the Book. But you are thinking that Arabs follow the Quran devoutly. They cherry pick like all the conservative Christian’s in the west. It doesn’t matter which religion they have they will be hateful against “others” regardless.
the mistake youre making is comparing sharia law to zionism
one is religious rules, the other is a political ideology heavily influenced by religious rules
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Being bigger and more powerful doesn’t mean you aren’t a bully. Israel being more powerful and more palatable doesn’t mean they aren’t terrorists. The US is a bad example if you’re trying to say Israel was in the right, because the US certainly wasn’t.
I think he was referring to the IDFs penchant for shooting Palestinian kids in the back for funsies for the last few years.
Source for this claim?
Jason Lee, Country Director for Save the Children in the occupied Palestinian territory, said:
“It is unacceptable that there is continued use of lethal force against children. So far, 34 Palestinian children in the West Bank have lost their lives in 2022, in what has become the deadliest year for children in more than 15 years. One Israeli child was reportedly also killed in an attack just this morning. Once again, children are paying the heaviest price for a conflict they have no control over."
It’s so easy to blame the British empire for any geopolitical mistake isn’t it?
I mean, they deserve it
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The EU may support Israel, but right now they’re calling them out for this bullshit and I’m applauding them for that. Hurting innocent civilians is never a good idea no matter which side of the conflict does it.
It angers me how many people are now permanently displaced. From what I’ve seen, the numbers are going to be extremely high. How do you rehouse an entire city? Families are going to suffer many hardships because of this. I can’t think of a better way to recruit a new generation for an age old cause.
I just noticed that the replies have turned into a crap ton of arguing.
The Palestinian government attacked their neighbor and took hostages. Their neighbor then stopped supplying Palestine with resources.
It seems Israel is aiming for the best case scenario here, which is for the people of Palestine to overthrow the death cult that controls their state.
Nice work ignoring the decades of conflict. It’s not like Israel has been stealing all the land they agreed to “allow” Palestinians have for the last 50+ years or anything, right?
That’s called collective punishment, and is a war crime.
They’re not really neighbors. Gaza is more like a prison controlled by Israel. Israel has controlled Gaza’s electricity, food, water, and the movement of its citizens for many years. I believe even before this attack, Israel only allowed Gaza 4 hours of electricity per day.
Also, in 2019, the PM of Israel reportedly laid out a strategy to “bolster” Hamas and provide them funding to oppose the Palestinian Authority. Hamas, in its current form, would not have been possible without Israel creating the perfect conditions for terrorist organizations to thrive. Israel keeps the conditions so bad, the average age in Gaza is 18. So, half of those Palestinian death toll numbers we are seeing are likely children.
Refusing to supply the country that invaded you is a war crime??? Since when? Does Ukraine have to keep sending food to Russia?
And what prison in this world can you fire off 5,000 rockets from?
Israel invaded Palestine. History didn’t start a week ago.
Refusing to supply the country that invaded you
The way I read it, they were already refusing basic human needs. Cart, horse.
The way I read it
I think I see your problem - you can’t read.
Gaza doesn’t have any oil so nobody will help.
So was the blockade. and they did nothing about it . bunch of spineless hypocrites
- What is the EU going to do without the US’s approval? UN is out due to permanent security member’s veto power. Going against the USA means loss of a lot of things. Some of them crucial. They literally cannot do a single thing without losing a major thing that directly impacts their citizens.
Not everything is about the US, you know, EU-internal politics regarding Israel are quite complicated.
I don’t think we managed to officially ban products out of settlements yet but I don’t see them anywhere for the simple reason that they have to be labelled as settlement products, not “Made in Israel”. Israel threw a pretty fit over that, usually EU action (besides stern letters) takes the form of annoying the Israeli right by helping Palestinians.
Going against the USA means loss of a lot of things.
…none of which the EU can’t replace. We’ve been in plenty a trade war, you’re welcome to look up how those ended.
Seems to my like most Europe does not like Israel but they’d rather the jews there than back in Europe.
Just a guess, i cou I d be off by a mile…
We’d rather they’d understand rapprochement even half as well as we do.
Not everything is about trade wars. All it takes is for the US to say they will not follow NATO security agreements and follow through with that, and if you think that is not possible you haven’t paid attention to the shit show over here. It’s a serious problem and we are not fixing the holes that appeared in recent years.
The EU doesn’t need the US to defend itself – who’s going to invade? Russia? With what army?
Power projection is another thing but we don’t really want to do that anyways. And the French would rejoice they’d finally get their EU army project really going.
hypocrites?
I’m surprised they haven’t used phosphorus on Gaza yet.
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Took longer than I thought it would.
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Well they have in the past https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza
By just having the power to cut water, electricity and food to other ethnic should ring you a fucking bell deep to your throat about the problem!!!
Wait! I know what Borrell will do: expel Israel from Eurovision! That will serve them right and start behaving!
I don’t expect much more from anything leaded by Borrell. We know him well in Spain.
Wtf is israel in Eurovision?
Because they’re an EBU member and the EBU includes the whole Mediterranean, have a map. The reason the Arab states don’t compete in Eurovision isn’t because they’re not allowed to, but because Israel participates. Morocco and Lebanon even are founding members, Israel joined in 1957 (look under “past members” Israel switched organisations in 2017).
Australia got special dispensation to participate even though they’re only an associated member because they’ve been nuts about the contest for ages, constantly hitting very high viewer numbers.
Australia was allowed to participate as a special guest to celebrate the contest’s 60th anniversary. People there liked it and ESC was like “whatever, you may stay”.
It was like hiring a band for your birthday party, but they turn out to be fun people to have around, so you let them stay after their show.
That’s true but the reason they were invited in the first place is because they’ve been steady fans since 1983. They got a commentary booth in 2012, airtime to fawn in 2013, and then the special guest band in 2014 ah heck here’s the link. It wasn’t a random thing, besides Australia Eurovision isn’t a thing anywhere outside of Europe.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yes, and Australia is as well. :D
For some reason they are members of the European broadcasting union
I’m going to be real, I doubt they can even muster the will to write a strongly worded letter with the kinds of members who make up the EU.
and then they won’t do anything.
“Do unto others as others have done unto you.”. – Israel
That was not the best takeaway, but here we are.
Palestine cut off Israel’s water and electricity?
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Blocking neccesities for civiliana like water is a war crime. Encircling enemy state after it lanched offensive to yours is not, otherwise e.g. allies pushing Nazis all the way back to Berlin was also crime.
Israel claims that Hamas is not a legitimate government and definitely not a state. They claim and control the territory of Gaza and consider Hamas a terrorist organization.
So by their own definition, this is a
war crimecrime against humanity.Kinda like the extermination of a people including taking hostages, torturing hostages, raping hostages, and executing hostages?
Two wrongs dont make a right, but Israel is by no means worse than HAMAS.
Going by the numbers would suggest Israel is 20 times worse than Hamas. But, that was before they started one of the largest scale war crimes in recent history*… I would argue that Israel is, from what seems to me a rather objective point of view, to be much worse
*I’m referring to the war crime on 2.2 million civilians who are being cut off from water, electricity and food, who can do nothing about it, because of, you guessed it, Israel.
Numbers are not the most important moral decider in war. By your logic, the US or Canada would have been the worst major player in WW2. Intent matters and moral values matter.
Nah. My logic is sound, don’t attribute flaws in it based on your inability to understand my point. Let me break it down for you:
Numbers are not the most important moral decider in war
I have not made this claim. I have suggested that numbers can help gain better understanding of a situation, especially when the numbers suggest incorrect portrayal of a situation, one which is extremely prevalent in US media.
Canada … in WW2, as topping the leaderboard as responsible for civilian casualties? Canada is your second place there? I mean, why the fuck do I bother discussing this with people online. And… the US on first place? Sure, the US nuked 2-300 000 people… Man… the dumb arguments I see. Aside from ethnic cleansing, it is one of the worst war crimes committed, but even so, it’s a % of the civilian casualties in USSR, China and Nazi Germany. But, I’m sure that’s part of the copium right. “The animals beheaded 40 babies” => “Let’s do some ethnic cleansing, because intent matters, not numbers!”. (PS: Numbers of beheaded babies: 0, “but I’m sure they intended to!”)
Why are you comparing the two? You’re insulting Israel by comparing them to a terrorist organization.
The Israeli Government should be better than criminals, just as the US should be better than the Taliban. But they actually kill more. Like it or not, Palestinians are citizens of Israel and living on their territory. If Israel kills them indiscriminately, they are committing a crime against humanity.
Palestinians are citizens of Israel
Never were.
They are defacto subjects of Israel, since the State of Palestine has been under Israeli military occupation since 1967. If you don’t call them full “citizens” it implies they are second class citizens in a apartheid-like state.
Do you want to do that?
