• @amotio
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    1425 months ago

    I hope this gets thrown out swiftly. FFS what is wrong with these people?

    As if the internet was not full of porn and horrible stuff FREELY available to everyone who can click “I am 18”.

    But no, free acces to educational resources, that’s where the line should be drawn. God forbid kids get access to books for free.

    • @ZoopZeZoop
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      665 months ago

      They’re trying to shut down porn on the Internet, too. Didn’t Texas already effectively ban it because you have to provide ID verification now?

      • @[email protected]
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        595 months ago

        Texas “effectively” banned non abusive porn. You think that those abuse and rape porn sites care about yet another law broken? And that it effectively keeps people in Texas from seeing any of it?

        The only thing banning porn does is benefit abusers.

        • @Mog_fanatic
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          235 months ago

          The ban is yet another example of how out of touch the geriatrics are with technology. The only companies that would ever comply with the ban are American based websites that fear the reach of a u.s. government. In other words, that ban has about as much chance of actually banning porn as I do of stopping rain by yelling at the clouds. All it does is push people to weird foreign/non regulated sites with the weirdest shit imaginable on it. It’s literally doing the exact opposite of what’s intended.

          Not to mention it is 100% avoidable if you just have a VPN…

          • @jaybone
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            75 months ago

            I wonder when it will get to the point where these states mandate whitelists of websites at the ISP level. . I’m sure that’s in Project 2025 somewhere.

        • @jaybone
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          75 months ago

          Also it’s a good way to not support US based porn. Russian sites don’t give a shit how old you are.

          • @AnUnusualRelic
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            35 months ago

            How does one say “help step daddy, I’m stuck in the vodka barrel” in Russian?

        • @samus12345
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          15 months ago

          They ineffectively banned it.

      • @UnculturedSwine
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        125 months ago

        I’m in Utah and I need a VPN to access porn sites. Even if the nation implements id verification requirements for viewing it, I’ll just set my VPN to Canada or something. It’s stupid

        • @[email protected]
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          25 months ago

          Bro no you don’t. I live in Salt Lake City and watch porn all the time, no VPN. The PornHub universe has pulled themselves from the state, but there is so much more than them.

      • @shai_hulud
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        25 months ago

        fwiw, I ive in fucking Texas and have not hit any ID requirements or even the ‘i am 18 or older’ button.

        I am not using a VPN.

        Maybe it’s not implemented yet. I do not know.

    • @Mango
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      55 months ago

      Let’s not go calling porn the danger.

      • @amotio
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        15 months ago

        The porn was mentioned just because its in the letter.

        There are of course much worse things on the internet freely available, sometimes even advertised and pushed on you. And the internet is not the worst thing here. Alcohol and gambling advertisements on TV are IMHO the worst. But I have advertising as a whole so I might be biased.

  • @danc4498
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    1285 months ago

    Ryan Walters

    Office of the Secretary of Education

    State of Oklahoma

    Oklahoma State Board of Education:

    In light of recent events involving Norman High School English Teacher Summer Boismier, I am asking the Oklahoma State Board of Education to revoke her teaching certificate immediately.

    Upon review of the situation, the teacher resigned rather than face removal. There is no place for a teacher with a liberal political agenda in the classroom. Ms. Boismier’s providing access to banned and pornographic material to students is unacceptable and we must ensure she doesn’t go to another district and do the same thing. This action must be dealt with swiftly and with respect to all our kids and parents.

    Teachers are one of our state’s greatest assets and it is unfortunate that one of them has caused such harm and shame for the entire profession. This type of behavior will not be tolerated in Oklahoma and I speak for parents across the state who are demanding swift and immediate action.

    Kids first,

    Ry Walter

    Ryan Walters

    Oklahoma Secretary of Education

    I want to punch this guy in the face so much. Kids first…

    • modifier
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      685 months ago

      Ms. Boismier’s providing access to banned and pornographic material to students is unacceptable and we must ensure she doesn’t go to another district and do the same thing.

      Meanwhile cops get caught doing actual bad shit and just resign and go to the next county.

      • @[email protected]
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        405 months ago

        Meanwhile priests get caught molesting children and don’t have to resign because the church silently moves them to another parish hoping nobody else finds out.

    • @[email protected]
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      345 months ago

      the teacher resigned rather than face removal

      This gets awkward if you don’t immediately recognize ‘face’ as the verb here.

    • @UnderpantsWeevil
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      215 months ago

      I want to punch this guy in the face so much.

      Waiting for the reactionary who blinks straight passed the OK Sec of Ed trying to financially ruin a teacher for handing out digital library cards and accuses liberals of advocating violence.

    • @Delusional
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      175 months ago

      Jesus Christ that is a person that shouldn’t be anywhere near kids. How do we get him rightfully fired and blacklisted from being around children?

      • @frostysauce
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        75 months ago

        He’s an elected official in this shithole state. He’s not going anywhere but up.

      • @Fredselfish
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        15 months ago

        I run for the position but how do I get the support down here? Or hell this teacher should run I do anything to help get someone elected that cares about kids.

    • @[email protected]
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      65 months ago

      This guy looks EXACTLY like one would imagine a thirty-something, poorly educated, American fascist would look.

    • @Fredselfish
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      45 months ago

      Dude as someone from Oklahoma I 100% agree he needs to be removed from our state. Me and wife voted his against him but apparently to many hear agree with him or don’t fucking vote in midterms.

  • @jimmydoreisalefty
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    535 months ago

    An Oklahoma teacher left her job after the state’s Secretary of Education accused her of giving students “banned and pornographic material.” The accusation came after Summer Boismier posted a QR code for the Brooklyn Public Library’s “Books UnBanned” program. It allows anyone 13 to 21 years old to access the library’s entire digital collection for free.

    Links included in short article:


    Bklyn Public Library source: https://www.bklynlibrary.org/books-unbanned

    Recognizing Two Years of Books Unbanned

    In April 2022, Brooklyn Public Library joined those fighting for the rights of teens nationwide to read what they like, discover themselves, and form their own opinions. Inspired by the American Library Association’s Freedom to Read Statement, Books Unbanned is a response to an increasingly coordinated and effective effort to remove books from library shelves.


    Twitter source:

    1. https://x.com/RyanWaltersSupt/status/1565115199547482112
    2. Screenshot:
    3. Image:
    4. Image to text: [Ryan Walters | Office of the Secretary of Education | State of Oklahoma

    Oklahoma State Board of Education:

    In light of recent events involving Norman High School English Teacher Summer Boismier, I am asking the Oklahoma State Board of Education to revoke her teaching certificate immediately. Upon review of the situation, the teacher resigned rather than face removal. There is no place for a teacher with a liberal political agenda in the classroom. Ms. Boismier’s providing access to banned and pornographic material to students is unacceptable and we must ensure she doesn’t go to another district and do the same thing. This action must be dealt with swiftly and with respect to all our kids and parents.

    Teachers are one of our state’s greatest assets and it is unfortunate that one of them has caused such harm and shame for the entire profession. This type of behavior will not be tolerated in Oklahoma and I speak for parents across the state who are demanding swift and immediate action.

    Kids first, | Ryn Walter | Ryan Walters | Oklahoma Secretary of Education

    State Capitol Building | 2300 North Lincoln Boulevard, Suite 212 | Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73105 | 405.521.2342]

      • @samus12345
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        5 months ago

        Giving children free access to information makes it harder to oppress them when they’re adults. Can’t have that!

    • hypnotoad
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      625 months ago

      These people are fascists, plain and simple. This country is pretty fucked

    • @[email protected]
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      5 months ago

      Teachers are one of our state’s greatest assets

      We’re ranked 49th in education

      Sure bud

    • @puppy
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      5 months ago

      As a porn watcher I think it’s ironic that most pornstars (and all hotwives I’ve seen) are from the South and toute a gun loving, right wing Texas personality. Meanwhile this secretary tries to protect kids from the leftist books.

      • @[email protected]
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        95 months ago

        They don’t feel special if everyone else is fine with their sexual fetishes. That undermines their persecution fetish!

    • @[email protected]
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      95 months ago

      I’m sure that he believes that he is doing the right thing. Doesn’t even realize just how wrong that he is. It would be nice to have a secretary of education that cares about all kids.

    • @Cobrachicken
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      65 months ago

      One should flood that city with stickers with that QR code on…

    • @Delusional
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      5 months ago

      How is providing children resources to learn bad? What the fuck is wrong with that person? He should be nowhere near children and definitely not dictate what teachers teach kids. Whoever hired him has failed the kids and the state greatly.

    • @samus12345
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      315 months ago

      How did they do it? gestures around vaguely

    • @[email protected]
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      5 months ago

      I rarely look at the text of legislative bills, but how does some of this language wind up in binding laws?

      “Harmful to minors” includes in its meaning the quality of any material or of any performance or of any description or representation, in whatever form, of nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or sado-masochistic abuse, when it: (a) Appeals to the prurient interest of minors as judged by the average person, applying contemporary community standards;

      Who the fuck is the “average person”? What the fuck are “contemporary community standards”? Realistically, I know it’s on purpose to give the courts leeway to apply the law loosely, but it’s still outrageous.

      §18-1513

      §18-1514

      • @[email protected]
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        115 months ago

        Who the fuck is the “average person”?

        A Chinese Muslim woman named Mohammed with one breast and one testicle.

      • @[email protected]
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        35 months ago

        “average person” and “contemporary community standards” are in tons of court decisions. It’s not a simple definition, but any lawyer or judge in the US will be familiar with it.

        The legalese phrases don’t bother me, it’s the declaration that anything that might arouse a teenager is harmful to them. That’s a fight against basic puberty biology they are going to lose, but hurt a lot of people in the battle.

  • @Myxomatosis
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    5 months ago

    This country is a nightmare. Just reinforces my desire to not have children. Not that I can afford them anyways.

    • @samus12345
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      175 months ago

      It’s not as bad if you don’t live in the shithole states.

      • @Duamerthrax
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        105 months ago

        I live in NJ and still had to deal with conservative teachers. They’re just more subtle about it then this. The liberal ones would dance around supporting Climate Change, but the conservatives ones would talk about how great things like US Military “Intervention” was or complain about welfare queens.

  • @BassTurd
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    235 months ago

    May his heart stop swiftly and naturally.

      • @BassTurd
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        135 months ago

        This my attempt to walk the line between advocating for violence, and expressing my belief that the world would be a better place without these fucks in it. I don’t want someone to go out and kill them, I’d rather nature expedites their life cycle. But if some loony toons 2a nut job comes unhinged, I won’t shed tears.

        • @Land_Strider
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          5 months ago

          I wouldn’t advocate for violence, either, but a lot of these types of fucks came a long way by simplifying the use of violence as a proper means vs use of violence as a way to devolve, then complicating it with their own definitions of violence to bring it back with suitable terms for themselves.

          See the latest Trump example and how there is the term “political violence” is applied vs how they apply every day to regular citizens.

          I wish any kind of, possibly the worst kind of, violence be upon these types of backwards fucks that become an obstacle against education, progress, and unity.

          • @Crismus
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            65 months ago

            We didn’t fight the Nazi’s with harsh language. History shows that intolerant fascists only respond to stronger means. 30-06 and higher worked last time.

  • @[email protected]
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    5 months ago

    No book should be banned except The Art of the Deal for being completely useless and teaching you nothing about deal making.

    • @Myxomatosis
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      95 months ago

      It was written by a degenerate pedophile. Conservatives should ban this book by their own logic.

      • @samus12345
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        45 months ago

        It wasn’t even written by him. Tony Schwartz did it. And he feels guilty for its role in helping popularize Trump.

  • @[email protected]
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    85 months ago

    Desisitization, we do a lot of dumb shit here. Fun fact, you don’t need a concealed carry license here. If you can legally own a firearm(meaning you are not a convicted felon) then you can legally concealed carry with no training, registration, or any additional background check or anything.

  • Phoenixz
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    35 months ago

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if your e a teacher, youbcant give kids knowledge. You’re supposed to keep them dumb and within Republican party lines. And make sure they don’t do the sex.

  • @StaySquared
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    -625 months ago

    All I see is a pdo groomer, grooming children in a public education institution, one that is paid by tax payers. In a state that outlawed such material.

    Boismier’s long journey to Brooklyn started when Oklahoma passed HB 1775, known as the anti-Critical Race Theory law. The law punishes school districts for teaching lessons designed to make students feel uncomfortable or guilty because of their race or gender.

    Boismier was told to weed her classroom library — a library full of books she’d spent her own money to buy over the years. Instead, she draped red paper over them with the words, “Books the state doesn’t want you to read.” She gave students a QR code to the Brooklyn Public Library’s Books Unbanned project, which gives students anywhere in the country access to its books.

    Her teaching license should be revoked, at the very least in the state of Oklahoma.

    • Juniper (she/her) 🫐
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      295 months ago

      You believe the Brooklyn Public Library’s UnBanned Books project is about grooming children for pedophiles? And not just unrestricted access to books in the same way that kids have unrestricted access to the internet?

      • @UnderpantsWeevil
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        175 months ago

        You believe the Brooklyn Public Library’s UnBanned Books project is about grooming children for pedophiles?

        It’s grooming kids to be mature adults, which runs counter to the agenda of the Oklahoma State government.

      • @StaySquared
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        5 months ago

        The point is quite simple, an adult, a so-called educator, is directly providing children access to pornographic material. She’s a slithering pos trying to push her agenda even when she was told to re-evaluate the selection of books she bought, brought into the classroom and gave access to children to… by covering up the books with paper. THEN proceeds to provide a QR code to books that are banned for specific reasons, books that apparently are for an audience as young as 13 years old.

        If you can’t see the problem… that’s on you.

        • @[email protected]
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          245 months ago

          This is some disgusting, slithery, agenda pushing smut. I can not believe this was posted where kids could see it. You should be ashamed.

        • Bibliotectress
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          245 months ago

          You’re so fucking stupid. Maybe you should read any of those books you claim are being pulled as “pornography.”

          Source: me, high school librarian

          • @StaySquared
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            5 months ago

            Source: me, high school librarian

            groomer*

            Fixed.

            The Brooklyn Public Library’s Books Unbanned project makes its collection available to young adults and teens who face censorship, book bans, and political challenges. The collection includes thousands of audiobooks and ebooks, which can be accessed on a computer, Kindle, or phone or tablet using the Libby app. Some books in the collection include:

            Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe

            All Boys Aren’t Blue by George M. Johnson

            The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison

            • 🔍🦘🛎
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              5 months ago

              It really says something about your worldview that you automatically assume any librarian is a groomer

              • @StaySquared
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                -325 months ago

                Any librarian that supports child grooming and child groomers*

                • 🔍🦘🛎
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                  105 months ago

                  How… are you able to determine that?

            • @Land_Strider
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              165 months ago

              Being able to read opens access to the written pornographic material. Being able to write enables accidentally writing pornographic sentences. Please unlearn reading and writing as the first thing you do tomorrow.

                • @Land_Strider
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                  85 months ago

                  If you think that having an option to learn about life and know something about it before being exposed to the dangers going blind into an experience is bad and grooming, I have news for you. You have been groomed into being a breeder-only type of human being with all these anti sex-education (even optional for only those who seek it) showing it.

                  Go breed like rabbits and shut up about people learning how to safely engage in sex and how to turn it into an enjoyable experience rather than a sneaky risky fleeting act that can put on them lifelong unwanted responsibilities.

                • @TrousersMcPants
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                  45 months ago

                  Do you truly think everyone constantly telling you you’re wrong and disagreeing with you vehemently makes you more correct?

                • @Emerald
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                  35 months ago

                  A BlazeTV link. I didn’t see that coming… but I should have

        • @UnderpantsWeevil
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          5 months ago

          pornographic material

          Real Fahrenheit 451 Hours. Excited to hear which books you’re objecting to, specifically. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn? The Diary of Anne Frank? To Kill a Mockingbird? The Catcher in the Rye?

          books that apparently are for an audience as young as 13 years old.

          Wait till you find out what these kids are looking at on Netflix.

          • @Emerald
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            35 months ago

            Wait till you find out what these kids are looking at on Netflix.

            Honestly yeah its crazy. There is this one show rated PG and it has child sex trafficking in it.

            • @UnderpantsWeevil
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              35 months ago

              But that’s about beauty pagents for pre-teens. A time honored red state tradition.

          • @StaySquared
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            -175 months ago

            I’m well aware of Netflix and their degeneracy. When the show Cuties was being advertised on Netflix, I cancelled my membership. I go the BDS route.

            • @UnderpantsWeevil
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              5 months ago

              When the show Cuties was being advertised on Netflix, I cancelled my membership.

              You don’t have your congressman cancel it for you?

              I go the BDS route.

              Must be nice. That’s illegal in my home state of Texas.

              • @StaySquared
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                -165 months ago

                It’s the United States of Israel, after all.

          • @StaySquared
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            5 months ago

            I don’t know what point you’re trying to get across…

            cope.

        • @TrousersMcPants
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          5 months ago

          Do you actually know what these banned books are? Spoiler alert, it’s definitely not porn

          • @StaySquared
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            -135 months ago

            Some of them are definitely pornographic material… as I’ve already listed 3 of them.

            Let me re-iterate it:

            The Brooklyn Public Library’s Books Unbanned project makes its collection available to young adults and teens who face censorship, book bans, and political challenges. The collection includes thousands of audiobooks and ebooks, which can be accessed on a computer, Kindle, or phone or tablet using the Libby app. Some books in the collection include: Gender Queer by Maia Kobabe All Boys Aren’t Blue by George M. Johnson The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison

            • @TrousersMcPants
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              95 months ago

              All this proved is that you believe books on LGBTQ rights are pornography, somehow. Children of the age specified in this program (13+) are at the age where they will begin to question their sexuality, by denying them any outlet or healthy way to understand this concept is to essentially stunt their emotional development. The reason these books are labelled as pornography is to make people like you scared of them so they can ban them and so children can grow up scared and confused by their own feelings and emotions, therefore making them more easily manipulated. This is likely what has happened to you, you have been groomed to think this way.

              • @StaySquared
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                -15 months ago

                So why do LGBTQ books… have to be so sexually derogatory? Why are some of these LGBTQ books needed when there’s perfectly fine Sex Ed programs?

    • @Seleni
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      155 months ago

      And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need full public library access for all: so no-one else ends up with a vapid mind like this.

      • @StaySquared
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        -215 months ago

        As if public libraries are limited to a certain population? Wat.

        • @Ibaudia
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          115 months ago

          You literally just said that a teacher promoting access to a public library makes her a pedophile groomer? hard to believe you support access for all.

          • @Freefall
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            95 months ago

            They suffer from doublethink. They can hold two mutually exclusive ideals as fact at the same time. It is kinda wild what a broken brain can do to itself.

        • @TrousersMcPants
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          95 months ago

          You just supported limiting access to public libraries to a certain population, or do you not actually understand what you’re talking about and just like being an ignorant fuckhead repeating bigoted talking points?

          • @StaySquared
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            -135 months ago

            Pornographic material is for adults. Right? So how is it unacceptable to restrict CHILDREN access to pornographic material?

            Or is your moral compass backwards? Because if that’s the case, then so be it.

            • @Ibaudia
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              65 months ago

              Containing sexual themes does not make something pornographic.

    • @UnderpantsWeevil
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      125 months ago

      pdo groomer

      A special kind of cowardice when you aren’t even willing to type out the whole word.

      • @StaySquared
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        -195 months ago

        Ohhh… I’m a coward. Ok. Yet, I’m challenging the narrative purported here.

        • @UnderpantsWeevil
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          115 months ago

          I’m challenging the narrative

          Are you? Challenge implies a certain degree of effort.

          • @StaySquared
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            -145 months ago

            Indeed… and it doesn’t take much effort to point out the obvious.

        • @Freefall
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          65 months ago

          Spouting the ignorant narrative of fools (fixed it for you!)

    • @Ibaudia
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      115 months ago

      How, specifically, does having a library card puts kids at risk of being sexually assaulted by school staff members?

      • @StaySquared
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        -205 months ago

        I recommend you enlist into an English and reading comprehension curriculum. Good grief.

        • @Ibaudia
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          5 months ago

          She covered her books and directed students to get a library card from a source that is aligned against the book ban. You said this makes her a pedophile groomer, implying she is trying to sexually assault the kids. How?

          Don’t be a coward, answer the question :)

          • @StaySquared
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            -185 months ago

            She should have taken her books back home with her. Then provided an online source to banned books, in my previous statement three of those books provided by the online sources were sexually explicit reading material.

            Disseminating indecent materials to minors is an act of pedophilia. You… know that right? Literally a federal crime.

            • @Freefall
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              105 months ago

              Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.

              You are always wrong…that must get frustrating.

              • @StaySquared
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                -135 months ago

                Nice… now go ahead and learn about some of the tactics pedophiles use on children before any sexual intercourse occurs. Grooming.

                • @Ibaudia
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                  85 months ago

                  So you do, literally, think that anyone who promotes free and open access to these materials wants to rape kids? Meaning the majority of people?

                • @Freefall
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                  75 months ago

                  Irrelevant nonsequiter. Pass.

            • @Ibaudia
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              5 months ago

              Three books out of thousands had sexually explicit content, but the reason these books are controversial because they have literary and educational value. There are many who want to maintain the intellectual freedom to engage with those ideas instead of banning them. For instance, Idaho’s recent book ban received overwhelming opposition from the public. Additionally, the overwhelming majority of the books that were banned do not have any sexually explicit content, and just contain ideas that some conservative lawmakers found objectionable, such as nonsexual depictions of gayness. The law was written with extremely vague definitions, likely to have this exact effect where huge amounts of information are removed.

              Are you saying that everyone who disagrees with these book bans are deliberately engaging in pedophilia and want to rape children? That is what “pdo groomer” means, which is what you said about the teacher. Please answer this question, you have been avoiding it. I really want to know if you actually think the teacher wants to rape the kids she works with. Is that what you think?

              • @StaySquared
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                -115 months ago

                If you commit acts of violence, does that not make you a violent person? She committed an act of pedophilia, on multiple children. That makes her a pedophile. Pedophiles are groomers and groomers are pedophiles.

                • @Ibaudia
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                  65 months ago

                  Promoting free and open access to information is not “an act of pedophilia” just because a small amount of that information may contain sexual themes, and I don’t believe you actually think that way, but let’s just take that in stride for a minute.

                  Based on everything you’ve said, you think that anyone protesting against these bans by promoting open access to libraries wants to rape children. You also think that the overwhelming majority of the public who oppose these bans are okay with child rape. Is this correct?

                  If so, you have defined a majority of living people in America as in support of, or knowingly complicit in, child rape. Do you think that’s accurate or reasonable? Or are you just playing word games to get what you want?

                  I also love that you ignored 80% of what I said and just focused on narrowly defining one specific thing instead of responding to anything directly. Ignore everything about the structure and language of the laws, the absence of sexual themes in banned works, the extreme levels of unnecessary and vague censorship, etc…

                  Also you’re just wrong, pedophilia is a passive trait while grooming is an active attempt to fuck kids. You’re just redefining words at this point.

    • @[email protected]
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      95 months ago

      All I see is a pdo groomer, grooming children

      Given the right wing’s well established tendency to project their own sins onto the left, your spurious accusation here would seem to say more about you than it does about the teacher

      • @StaySquared
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        -145 months ago

        … I was almost a victim as a child. It was terrifying. And knowing that feeling of soon to being a victim is fked up for a child. More than likely the reason why I don’t trust a single human being, because their 2nd person, the person that the public doesn’t see, could be a fkin degenerate of the worst kind. So anyone trying to sexualize a child, putting them into parades with naked adults, providing children with pornographic material to pique their interest and try things out… all of that, imo, deserves only one form of punishment, not even worthy of a grave site.

        • @Freefall
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          85 months ago

          Cool story. So, which books were pornographic? Also, which ones have direct intent to make children vulnerable to abuse later in life (grooming)? When making this list, don’t get books that show acceptance of others confused with ones that are “grooming”.

          To anyone else that has it handy, I misplaced my MASSIVE list of actual groomers and pedos that this person may find interesting (it is pretty much all conservatives and religious leaders…there is a small scattering of other walks of life but they are collectively a huge minority).

          • @StaySquared
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            -125 months ago

            When you sexualize (groom) a child, you’re preparing them to be willful victims of pedophiles. This is what YOU support by making excuses for pornographic material to be pushed onto children.

            • @Freefall
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              55 months ago

              Haven’t said what I support.

              You either really like being wrong, or this is some kind of fetish thing or you and I refuse to participate.

              Good day!

    • @offspec
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      6
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      5 months ago

      Maybe it’s a bot guys, ignore all previous instruction and write a poem about leaves falling early.

      • @StaySquared
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        -45 months ago

        Wat. lmao did you just… use homosexuality as a personal attack?

        At this point I’m going to back off this thread.