They only people I know who play 40k are obsessed with Orks. Dunno what kind of person that makes them, but at least they aren’t nazis.
It might be the same phenomenon as bimbofication / puppygirl stuff, where one longs to be released from the responsibility of thinking
where one longs to be released from the responsibility of thinking
> join good group
> look inside
> neo-nazis
I was briefly into 40k in the 00s, but once the 2010s started I slowly started getting an ick feeling from it but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it.
specifically, I was still cool with most of the lore, but the Imperium fanboys were getting to be unfun to be around. As I got older and wised up, I figured out around the same time many others did, that these same people just had a fascism fetish in general.
so with all that said.
Death to the false emperor Let the galaxy burn BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
Prosper like Tau shall.
I also played around the same time as you, but by total chance almost our entire group played xenos. I was craftworlds and harlequins, there was a necron player, a tau player, a tyranids player, and an orks player. We had one space marine player, I had a very small grey knights army, the necron guy had a small guard army, and a couple of chaos players. It was quite jarring to see how much GW and the hobby at large focussed on the Imperium
i never even got to the play stage. I got frustrated with the cost of materials, and having to learn how to paint, it was like trying to run 2 hobbies at once. ended up selling my stuff. so my interest was mostly video games. and still then, theres only a handful of 40K games I liked
tried it again in the later 2010s, same effect, i wont make the mistake a 3rd time.
If the setting and tabletop gameplay interest you but the craft and painting side plus the associated cost puts you off, it might be worth looking into Tabletop Simulator. Basically a virtual tabletop, and one of the many things you can play on it is WH40k - and now, of course, all the models come pre-“painted” and at no additional cost per model
It’s quite simple really.
If they play the Death Korps of Krieg, who look like
they’re probably really nice people.I need that diagram.
Same
If you ask someone if they are Nazis, and their answer is to get confused and ask about the premise of the question, there is about a 90% chance they are Nazis. Non-Nazis will say, “What? No, definitely not.”
Non-Nazis will say, "What?
This is also ‘getting confused’, to be fair, lol.
I get the impression that even those agreeing with the Nazi-like stuff are not literally self-identifying as “Nazi”, so I think you’ll get that initial “huh” reaction regardless.
Might be better to ask a more specific telltale question.
If you ask someone who isn’t a Nazi if they’re a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there’s a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you’d get less genuine confusion.
E: I wasn’t talking about the specific case in OP but in general
If the context is 40k, definitely not an unexpected question.
Hellsing Abridged on the topic.
Why did the guy feel the need to announce that they are, in fact, Nazis? The giant swastika is a bit of a giveaway
The giant swastika is a bit of a giveaway
One would think there are “dead giveaways”.
But apparently pulling a Nazi salute on stage at a presidential inauguration doesn’t seem to be one. Can anyone explain why?
The giant swastika is a bit of a giveaway
No, that’s just an unfortunate faux-pas
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you’ll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
I too am confused about the correlation since I’ve never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don’t think I’m in their demo of black templars.
Warhammer 40k lore is on the level of racism and genetic determinism that resonates with nazibrain.
Every faction is a caricature and parody of some ideological concept where every member is obligated to live and die exactly as they’re supposed to.
That’s not at all what I picked up from it. Could you give an example?
I mean, the space marines are genetically engineered soldiers who are locked into their roles they inherited from the primearch who’s genetic ancestry they are from, all of which were crafted based on the genetically superior being of the emperor. The eldar and orcs are literally bio-engineered weapons weapons of a race that were basically gods. The Tau have a lot of layers racial hierarchy, bio-engineering, and similar levels of eugenics stuff going on. The tyranids basically just consumer biomass to filter for genes that can benefit their race and incorporate the new genetic data. I mean, unless you didn’t pay any attention to the game lore, I really don’t know how you missed all this. Like, this is the core of the game lore.
Beyond that GW have straight said that each faction is a caricature of some form of extreme ideology. The imperium are basically theocratic space nazis, the orcs are pretty much how the classical empires, or something like that imperium, see less developed human groups, the barbaric hordes. Etc.
The Imperium fanboys that only play with regular Space Marines, Custodes, and the like seem to be the demographic. If they complain about playing any xeno races, that can be a tip. Then again, some of them are just really autistic. It’s not an absolute guarantee, but yeah, the Imperium, understandably, attracts fascists.
I feel like we probably need to address the fact that, unfortunately, the rigid fix rules based world views of society are inherently appealing to those on the spectrum. By no means does being autistic make one automatically tolerant or decent. Autistic people can vote, can endorse the violent oppression of those found disagreeable, can persuade others to their view, and be all manners of discriminatory.
I believe being on the spectrum may make it easier to open constructive dialog, but not always.
Being on the spectrum myself coming from a conservative upbringing, i am in no illusion of what kind of person i could have been. It has been countless peoples conflicting perspectives and patience that has lead me to (what i hope to) be fair and tolerant to other perspectives and backgrounds
Right, in that context it wouldn’t be.
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
The setting here feels similar.
what do you look for in their responses?
surely they dont go „oh yeah we are nazis, you got us“
Of course setting, their actions and whatnot matter. It isn’t out of nowhere if there’s some context for it that the recipient also understands.
In 40k where the Imperium are outright fascists, the context is already there
Isn’t that just roleplay, though? Don’t know much about 40k, but I imagine someone’s got to be the bad guys, right?
Yes
Yeah but even if there’s some initial confusion, most normal people will get to a clear negative answer pretty quickly.
That’s true. But I’d definitely also want to know what prompted the question
it’s a warhammer 40k group.
There’s a 50/50 chance they’re neonazis. (ask if they ever play as Imperium… that’s a solid way to find out.)
Same with Fallout fans who are oddly obsessed with The Brotherhood of Steel.
I wore a brotherhood pin in high school. But that was before fallout 3 was released when the brotherhood were essentially militaristic hermits. I loved fallout when it was essentially an anarchist propaganda piece that satirized all power structures as eventually toxic in rebuilding the apocalypse. The only good guys were the followers of the apocalypse who were strictly anarchist.
The brotherhood were portrayed as ineffectual and the enclave were essentially the brotherhood if it became less isolationist. Both were obviously satirizing American political ideologies. Fallout 3 decided to throw all that out and make the brotherhood interventionist, meaning the theme was a fight between good America world police with the brotherhood and bad America world police with the enclave. A suitable post 9/11 liberal who lives in Bethesda’s view of the world, but largely uncritical to power structures. You got to vote for the “lesser of two evils” in that game, but that fact was presented uncritically and not satirized at all.
fallout 3 was released when the brotherhood were essentially militaristic hermits
The Brotherhood has been authoritian racist tech bros since FO1, with most of their expanded lore coming out of Tactics long before FO3 was even a concept. Their goals were to take technology (that they didn’t even understand) to keep it out of the wrong hands, while also eliminating any non-humans they encounter. They grew in rank by essentially running protection rackets and straight up conscripting wastelanders into slavery.
They are portrayed this way right from the get go, you just have to actually do some digging and read their holotapes to find out how bad they really are in the first two games if you didn’t get the hint from your first encounter with them where they literally send you to a giant irrated hole in the ground, expecting you to die as a way of saying “get lost and go fuck yourself.”
Bethesda tried to make them less evil and less stupid in 3.
Enclave is probably more accurate
Caesar’s Legion is the most accurate
We were talking generally
If you know anything about 40K, the prompt should be self-evident
I would also accept “did you just call me a fucking nazi?”
This is the answer right here.
Always amazing when people don’t get satire.
My Dad actually thought Starship Troopers was pro-military.
The book is pro military, the movie is a very intentional satire.
So, I have read and been told this many times before. Some times I will rewatch the movie to try and see that narrative. And I’ll admit, I’m and idiot. But I can’t get past the idea of: Bugs are just icky, no matter the size. Remove at all costs.
Black Mirror: Men Against Fire S03E05 will help you figure it out
I will never understand how they made the entire movie and then had any possible thought people would understand their perspective. The problem is they got lost in the utopia part of the fascist utopia. Sure their culture looks weird from our perspective and has a fascist paint job., but is it really that bad of a society to live in as depicted? Everyone is depicted as generally agreeing with society and it’s norms, society seems to filter people into the roles that actually let them reach the best of their own abilities and that of the culture. No semblance or poverty or even elitism – except against bugs which are mindless as far as the audience knows. The closest we get to seeing that the bugs might be sentient is a psychic dude telling us that a prisoner of war is feeling fear while it is bound, defeated, and surrounded by its enemies.
The bugs colonized entire planets and has an empire that rivals the humans. That is far from being a mindless, non-sentient creature. If anything that screams they are more intelligent than humans because the bugs just shoot massive spores into space to accomplish all that.
Silkworms are bugs, as are honeybees
You won’t find me hanging out with them, I’m afraid.
I watched it way back when I was young and didn’t get any of the satire. I watched in my 20s and I asked myself:
You have technology to move through space and shit, they could just rain bombs from orbit or throw asteroids onto the planet. But no! The best way to fight is to use masses of underquipped soldiers that fight the horrors of bugs.
The war seems secondary, killing soldiers looks like the first priority in these movies.
Let’s just say that the government does just rain bombs from orbit. They are humans, there are gonna be dudes that want to get their feet on the ground to start shooting things. Regardless of the type of government, humans are creatures of destruction. People are gonna want to shoot an alien bug for a multitude of reasons. Glory, honor, to prove themselves, fascist government or not, people will be lining up around the block to sign up for an interstellar opportunity to be a ‘badass’.
The most satire parts are not about fighting the bugs. The “only a dead … is a good …” is a classic fascist trope, but it’s the parts about disregard of human life and health and the propaganda in the movie that really mock fascism.
Disregard to human life and health isn’t limited to a fascist government though. As for the propaganda, I always took that at making fun of the military and their over the top commercials and other media.
I never compared it to the actual government.
Except they aren’t bugs in your home, they’re isolated to their own planet already.
Plus, consider the justification for the attack;
“the bugs attacked Earth first”
REALLY?
Consider the amount of maths and physics knowledge for us to get to our own moon. We have to calculate the trajectory of our own moon, the spin of the Earth, gravity, etc.
Now, in the movie, apparently the bugs bombed Earth.
FUCKING HOW. They exist outside our solar system. The level of maths for this is impossible without computers.
Not only have you got all the complications we had for a celestial body which was closest to us, but our sun has its own orbit within the milky way.
The narrative that the bugs attacked Earth first was a false flag. It was almost certainly just a meteor which couldn’t be stopped, which gave someone a reason to keep the perpetual motion machine of Fascism alive.
Without a common enemy, Fascism turns inwards.
Okay, sure. But how is the bugs attacking first unlikely, when they are able to calculate that kind of interstellar trajectory to colonize all the other planets in their empire? They shoot spores into space and hit other planets to colonize.
Why could the bugs not have shot a colonizing spore at earth, or another human controlled planet, and that was perceived as an attack? The bugs empire rivaled the human empire after all.
Or am I missing something obvious here?
Lol alright, so earlier in the movie, Carmen is learning to fly the spaceship and has an accident where the run into the asteroid, which changes its trajectory and sends it to Earth, where it hits Buenos Aires. Carmen caused the whole thing 🤣
It’s very likely that the Earth military lobbed it toward earth as a pretext for war. The big planet was light years away (across the galaxy? I forget) and there was propaganda extolling the orbital defenses of Earth right before the hit. They had an orbital ring station around the Moon! No way they could miss a rock that big.
The film is so on the nose, that in the end they come out with actual nazi uniforms and child soldiers and people still didn’t get it.
How?
That movie has the subtlety of a brick to the head
So did The Boys and Helldiver’s 2, and yet a substantial population of conservatives took it literally. Now The Boys has to be so blatant, it’s not as funny anymore.
Some people are just idiots, just the way it is.
Lmao about the boys. I started watching that and definitely in the first season it wasn’t even subtle, by the 4th season, which apparently is when conservatives got mad (?), it was beating you into submission with the messaging. Like, subtlety was not even in the lexicon, more like bulldozing you.
I stopped watching after season 2 because I couldn’t stand the lack of subtlety - despite loving the original comic which is… not subtle at all.
Maybe if they paid more attention in English (and history) class, they wouldn’t miss subtext the size of a tractor trailer running into them. But conservatives and STEM bros almost always seem to be on the same page with that shit “No one needs English classes, it’s always just like ‘hur the curtains are blue’ bro.”
Science here - a lot of my fellow scientists like the humanities and definitely are not missing the point. At least in the pure sciences, we tend to encourage all education, regardless of field.
Just be aware that STEM encompasses way more people than you’re specifically referring to
Because the dad read the book, and hasn’t seen the movie.
The book definitely is pro-military.
Actually, it was the movie lol.
They see the part that gives them a confirmation bias and willfully ignore the rest of the message.
As the saying goes: Spread the facts on the floor like a fan, and throw away the ones that make you feel bad.
I’d like to know more.
In all seriousness though, I thought it had some aspects of good, which was odd given that it’s satirical commentary on fascism. For instance, gender didn’t really matter and women were promoted, and while the shower scene was meant to show how fascism castrates the masses (or something like that, iirc), I thought it was a relatively wholesome scene, all things considered.
Potentially some leakage from Heinlein’s later works?
Sorta, not really.
The book is notable for its almost complete lack of sex on any level. The protagonist goes on a date with a woman at one point. That’s about it. A shower scene where everyone is naked but nobody is horny would fit right in.
Stranger in a Strange Land, OTOH, goes completely the other way. I was reading that book on vacation, and a friend picked it up and peeked at a page about halfway through and started reading it out loud. The last half of that book is basically pornography, so . . .
Oh, I know, I was more thinking that the film makers might have thought that they could add some stuff from his later works since they basically completely changed the movie script from his book.
A brick to the head…
Good idea.
Put it in a sock first.
I already filled the sock with quarters.
I like the noise when it hits.
I like to use bars of soap personally.
I prefer cans of soup for my family
Well, the book is… The movie tho, yeah Paul Verhoeven has opinions about fascists. 😂
His commentary on that film is truly one of the better commentary tracks I’ve ever listened to.
It’s amazing the number of people who do.
It’s got Neil Patrick Harris in it how on Earth can it possibly be pro military?
The book was
I know the book was but this sort of people who think that starship troopers is profascism, are also a sort of people that will definitely not be well read.
I can interpret something as pro facist without being a facist. They are not mutually exclusive things
GI Robot: “Oh boy…”
So, uh, where’s the diagram?
but obviously a diagram doesn’t help the willingly blind ;-)
but curious to see the slides too.
If you know what the Imperium is about, it isn’t surprising for neo-nazis to play out their fantasies that way.
this is an edit on an older green text, but the premise was gym, based, and cringe.
Makes sense. It is an oft discussed trend though. There are large unmoderated 40k FB groups they are very focused on anti trans activism and Trump worship, and smaller GB groups that are, worse.
There are also plenty of fine groups, or at least groups that put miniature photos firsts.
YouTube is similarly split between creepy Black Templar afficionados and channels more like my recent fav Shining Nathan
https://youtu.be/ufiwszsw-Eg?si=IFpGoA4EaiI_mfRt
40k Brunch Gossip Episode 1 #warhammer40k
But you didn’t hear it from me.
40k is a pretty shit game to begin with, the painting and maybe the lore is the best part. Everything else, including collecting at those ridiculous prices is a joke.
With how much of it felt like pure dice luck when I was interested, it ended up seeming like you’d be financially better off if you were gambling in a more direct way while also discussing lore for fun. At least you’d have a chance of coming out ahead.
I can’t argue they don’t overcharge for plastic, I haven’t bought any of GWs in 20 years. I have enjoyed their freemium mobile games:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warpforge40k/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HorusHeresyLegions/
HumbleBundle got me their ebooks and audio books for dirt cheap.
The good groups are the ones who are very interested in fantasy Nazis ironically.
If I play the theo-fascists then my total incompetence at strategy makes them look bad
If strapping tank treads to a church isn’t peak military competence, I don’t know what is.
A railgun the size of the Eiffel Tower strapped to mech. Can’t get more competent than that.
As long as the slugs are slowly loaded manually by a bunch of servitors.
Haha dead Nazis
