- cross-posted to:
- economics
- leftism
- workreform
- cross-posted to:
- economics
- leftism
- workreform
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Bernie: Here’s a bill that will help literally everyone. People waste less of their lives at work, and productivity goes up massively for the corporate overlords. There is no downside here for anyone.
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
They’ve been telling him that since he was being arrested for protesting for civil rights and Joe Biden was fighting against school busing…
Their stupid bullshit hasn’t stopped him yet
Bernie is still the only politician I have donated to but to be fair to Biden, bussing was met with violent protests and even black activists criticized it for weakening black communities. There were good reasons to be against that method without being against desegregation.
There were good reasons to be against that method without being against desegregation.
That’s not a fact, it’s an opinion.
One that Biden hasn’t been able to rationalize to Dem voters for decades.
If you want to try, give it a shot. I legitimately believe you might do a better job at it than Biden.
But you’re gonna have to do more than say there was “good reasons” besides people of Bidens age being completely ignorant of psychology.
School busing sped up integration by decades, and when kids grow up in multiracial environments it changes their ingroup determination to not just be “people who look like me”.
We can only change that at a very young age, but it sticks with you for life. Even with busing, the effects were decades away.
If we didn’t have busing, generations of people would have suffered.
So if you and Biden want to argue with that, you’re going to have to put in a lot of effort to throw the last 30 years of psychology
It’s not my opinion. It is the opinion of many black civil rights activists at the time. They argued that spreading out the kids would weaken the ties to the black community. They wanted to make black schools better rather than move kids. They argued that strengthening the black community would be the most effective way to pursue civil rights. Given that black children still get inferior education to whites and black communities are impoverished, they might have been right.
Lol.
You can’t try to defend Biden…
So you make up hypothetical Black people and say they didn’t want their kids to go to school with white kids?
Like, you just honestly tried to say it was the Black people being racist, and what’s the implication?
That Biden knew that, lied about why he was against busing as a cover job?
Why not just stop replying instead of that shit you typed?
Black leaders were mixed on the practice. Activist Jesse Jackson, NAACP officials and U.S. Rep. Shirley Chisholm were among those who supported busing efforts and policies. But many Black nationalists argued that focus should instead be placed on strengthening schools in Black communities.
A February 1981 Gallup Poll found 60 percent of Black Americans were in favor of busing, while 30 percent were opposed to it. Among white people surveyed, 17 percent favored busing, and 78 percent were against it.
“It ain’t the bus, it’s us,’’ Jackson told The New York Times in 1981. ‘’Busing is absolutely a code word for desegregation. The forces that have historically been in charge of segregation are now being asked to be in charge of desegregation.’”
Has it been so long that you forgot which side eyounwere arguing?
Or do you legitimately think that backs up your opinion from almost a day ago?
Everyone: Shut up, hippy.
Don’t listen to them, when they tell you that. As far as you know, might even be an astroturfer, trying to kill this in the crib.
Call your House of Representative member and let them know that you want this bill to become law.
If we citizens don’t apply the pressure, nothing will happen.
And if your cynical about doing that, try it anyway, just as an experiment, to see what happens. Hell, even make a YouTube video about your experience doing so, for content.
Just say "Please let my representative know that I am in favor of the Bernie Sanders bill (Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act) for a 32 hour work week."
It’s just a phone call. A 32 hour work week is worth a single phone call, right?
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Slow it down there Thanos, just because you can’t personally see a solution to our current predicament doesn’t mean that genocide is the solution. Do you honestly believe that would fix things? Are you a comic book villain?
You decrie brainwashing by the media and assume that you are unaffected, but you are clearly and dangerously mislead into losing all hope for a better world. The latest shift in climate disinformation is away from denialism and towards doomerism, and you seem to have fallen for it hard.
It is not too late. There are attainable solutions. Political change is possible, perhaps even inevitable. There will be consequences for what has already been done, but we can survive them and we will. What might not survive are the institutions that got us to this point, but we can build a better world in their absence. Don’t lose hope, that’s what the oligarchs want.
I know it’s hard to sympathize with those who refused to see reason and allowed the powers that be to bring us to the point of crisis, but it’s important to remember that they too are victims.
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Unfortunately that’s a fairly naive take that fails to consider how most people work in the US- hourly employees would be fucked by this.
Retail, service, anyone whose not already working 9-5 office jobs; the reality is that they won’t loose pay, but they will loose hours. And you can bet your ass that companies won’t pay more to make up for it.
If it’s mandated by law they will. As they do in other countries.
Yup. These “free market” folks conveniently forget that competition is bolstered when there’s a floor. An impartial referee to call balls, strikes, and fouls. A set of rules everyone has to play by, or they don’t get to play at all.
Also known as regulation.
they lose hours but the hourly pay goes up, just like everybody else, no? I haven’t read the bill but I would be surprised if that’s not in there.
Companies already offer part time retail positions, and they are shitty about it. 39.5 hours a week to avoid the full time line.
So in this 32h future they’d just offer 31 hour positions at a lower rate and still yank people around
Edit: I was off on values. Commenter below pointed out 30 is the mark
The Full time Mark is already 30 hours per week measured monthly so not this would not change anything
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/employers/identifying-full-time-employees
Sorry off on values, but they would offer part time. This is common.
So 28-29 hours.
First off, it needs to be noted that the only mechanism to do that on so large a scale is to increase the minimum wage.
Which is how they did it in ‘38 when the work week went to 44, and in ‘40 when it when to what it is today.
The problem is that company are absolutely going to pass that off to customers (aka, the workers… ultimately.) and so really all you’ve done, effectively, is put far more people onto minimum wage.
Anyone who was above that mimimim? Gets the shaft.
And people who now are on minimum? Working two jobs to pay for everything (like most people in the bottom quarter are already doing anyhow,) so they don’t really see reduced hours anyway.
It’s well meaning and it’d be nice, but it needs to be done differently. Unions are strong now. Stronger than they have been since I’ve been working. Join a union. Make the change yourself; eventually it’ll get normalized without the above problems. (Also, better wages, healthcare, workplace safety and everything else Unions get you.)(don’t tell my boss’s boss that. He’s still buthurt from negotiating a new contract.)
The problem is that company are absolutely going to pass that off to customers (aka, the workers… ultimately.)
News flash, they’re going to be raising prices regardless.
And they won’t tack that on, too, anyhow?
Chances are they’ll pass on the costs, increase the price, anyhow, shrink products, and raise prices even more, and then blame the last three on the first.
Exactly like they’ve been doing.
Point is, they’re going to anyway. So why even take that into consideration?
You’re the one bringing it into consideration…
So… why are you bringing it up?
From the article…
The Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act would also protect workers’ pay and benefits to ensure there’s no loss in pay, according to a press release.
Says nothing about loss in hours.
Remember, when you’re paid hourly, you can lose hours and not lose pay.
Unless the employment contract already has guaranteed hours.
Says nothing about loss in hours.
I’m assuming that’s covered as a part of this…
ensure there’s no loss in pay
And you’d be wrong. Companies would still be paying them at whatever rate they were paid at. Most jobs don’t come with specifically guaranteed hours, however.
It’s a technicality, yes, but it’s also a very important distinction. They’re not losing pay. They’re losing hours. The consequence is the same; but short of minimum wage increases; there’s no mechanism for the US Government to dictate wages to individual companies. Particularly when they were never party to that contract in the first place.
If you are correct, then the bill won’t work, because it won’t have the support of all the hourly workers.
I’m assuming that Bernie and Co are smart enough to realize that, so they would make sure any bill that they wrote would cover that scenario that you’re describing, and not just waste all of our time.
That’s why I believe the part of the article I quoted earlier is factual, and covers what you’re speaking about.
I have no idea why you’re being downvoted. How would the government mandate a pay raise across the board? The government only has the federal minimum wage lever to play with. Somehow the law would have to say: all hourly workers must be paid 25% more. Would companies just increase prices by 25%?
Now, I’m all for reducing the work week to 32 hours. I’m tired of spending most of the week working and only having to 2 free days (of which one is usually spent doing home chores). But I’m genuinely curious about how this would be implemented without causing massive inflation.
Raising the minimum wage to account for inflation would give a vast number of people a major raise.
Which has little to do with a 32 hour workweek, and can’t be done on its own even though it really should be done.
Personally the minimum wage should be tied to the cost of living or increased along side CPI or some other useful inflation metric
Simply a one-time jump isn’t going to accomplish all that much in the long run.
Bring it up even to where it was along side inflation, (big jump,) and have an annual little jump baked in each year.
I agree, it has little to do with it. I was just addressing the idea that the federal minimum wage being the only lever to play would not have a massive positive effect on a huge percentage of workers.
The AFL-CIO, which is only demanding a $15/hour minimum wage says that if it kept up with inflation, it would be $24/hour.
https://aflcio.org/what-unions-do/social-economic-justice/minimum-wage
Based on that, the bare minimum someone working full-time should be making is a little less than $50,000 a year. And if the government used that ‘only lever to play,’ and it would still be less than the $68k that is needed to ‘live comfortably.’
https://thehill.com/business/4059025-an-average-american-income-may-no-longer-cut-it/
ive been reading a few things by the AFL-CIO, older stuff, I’d pay attention, though. (And 24 sounds about right.)
I was chatting with the union’s negotiator (technically the enemy, but, whatever. We have a good relationship for that.) now that the new contract is ratified; he’s disappointed because he thought they could get more.
I’m glad the bigwig negotiated they sent out fucked it up every which way. Got my people a much deserved pay raise and stuff.
Seriously, corporations are freaking scared of unions just now. I hope this momentum lasts.
We need this so fucking bad. As a species, not just America or the wealthy nations only. Everyone.
And this should just be a transitionary period down to a 24 or less hour work week. Fuck slaving away at shit jobs just to make billionaires.
We need this so fucking bad.
Of course we do, so do the corporations, though they don’t realize it. With happier workers you get more profits.
Call your House of Representative member and let them know that.
If we citizens don’t apply the pressure, nothing will happen.
And if your cynical about doing that, try it anyway, just as an experiment, to see what happens. Hell, even make a YouTube video about your experience doing so, for content.
Just say "Please let my representative know that I am in favor of the Bernie Sanders bill (Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act) for a 32 hour work week."
It’s just a phone call. A 32 hour work week is worth a single phone call, right?
“but more hours means more productivity %%”
I’m going to go with you forgot to add the /s to your comment.
The quotes provide the same meaning, basically that you are parodying the other side.
Quotes are usually reserved for actually quoting someone else (for example), and not making a statement about parodying the other side.
It’s a pretty commonly used format on many parts of the internet, I think most people would interpret it that way, especially when everybody reading will see that what is being quoted is obviously untrue.
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Well I guess I’m being nuanced here, but I don’t think in this specific case that works out that way, considering what it’s replying to.
In other words I would agree with your interpretation if the reply was parodying something I said directly. Otherwise it just seems something of a non sequitur.
Anyway, I get what you’re trying to communicate towards me, I even agree that sometimes it is using the way you describe. I would just think that’s done the minority of the time, and the majority of the time quotes are used to actually quote someone.
So you’ve never read fiction?
No, in all the decades I’ve been on this planet, I’ve never read one book of fiction of any type whatsoever.
/s
Don’t get me wrong, I love me some Futurama, but you’re going to have to elaborate on this reply, and how it relates to my comment about contacting your house representative.
“I don’t miss twice Campers.”
I loved that line.
I was jokingly suggesting that unhappy workers are actually more productive but in reality I’m 100% with you.
Good idea. I have one little suggestion. Start the conversation with “Fuck Milton Friedman, and fuck your shares.”
When COVID shut down my state (we were considered essential) we got furloughed one day a week. I was getting paid less so I was concerned, but it was honestly the best thing to happen to me. We started a garden, I got so much more done. I was healthier and happier.
Going back to 5 days a week, and longer commute (no more COVID clear freeways), I can absolutely feel my life shortening. I’ve gained a ton of weight, and increased stress significantly.
Upvote because I am Satan and I want you to suffer! /s
Yea, slaving away should be purely optional. If you love your job or you love money or you want to keep yourself distracted AND make money at the same time, by all means, knock yourself out and work 60 hour weeks.
It’s a failure of the system if people have to work full time to scrape by with the very bare necessities and live in poverty, with all the nasties that come with it. America coined the term “working poor” (obligatory meme so we’re on the same page)
Full Employment and Zero Protests go hand-in-hand.
As soon as unemployment figures start climbing (2008, 2014, 2016, COVID-2020) people hit the streets and cops start working a lot of extra overtime.
Imagine if people had a whole third weekend day to themselves. Imagine what they could spend their time doing that wasn’t entirely predicated on enriching their bosses?
Imagine citizens actually learning how politics work and taking civic responsibilities for their own interests, instead of being chained to a job for every waking moment, and so zombified they don’t even know what day of the week it is.
Happy people with stake in their own community. What a nightmare for the ownership class!
America coined the term “working poor” (obligatory meme so we’re on the same page)
It’s also very American to just fucking ignore most of the world while saying things like that.
Are you saying that the term “working poor” was coined in another country?
Looking at the productivity gains, vs income gains since 1970, I would say that we need an 8 hour work week. We are producing well over 7 times as much stuff and economic value as we were in 1970
We should produce less stuff.
The amount of shit that companies produce and then just throw away because it’s cheaper than donating, is staggering. There was some report a while back about Amazon doing this. Truckloads of stuff that doesn’t sell, brand new, straight to the landfill. Stuff that could be donated to public schools or whatever. Fucking gross.
Not to mention all the food we produce, then waste.
That is on third party sellers. They have to pay for warehouse space after a certain amount of time. If something isn’t selling they can pay for Amazon to ship it back or destroy it. Most sellers don’t actually have a warehouse themselves, they have their products shipped directly from the manufacturer to an Amazon warehouse.
Sure, but I honestly don’t care much about the logistics or details of why. The underlying concept is the unnecessary waste. Whatever the reason it’s happening, I disagree with it.
Agreed. The problem is a business like Amazon getting SO INCREDIBLY MASSIVE and yet completely neglecting the obvious problems with “Eh just destroy perfectly good stuff” being the easiest, most convenient option.
Heck, they’re so evil I’m surprised they don’t just have a ToS that says “We sell it ourselves if you don’t wanna store it and don’t want it returned.”
But nah, filling landfills with wrecked computers, batteries, and plastics is so much more convenient this quarter /s.
They (amazon) need to be destroyed. We don’t want to store them here anymore.
A relative of mine used to work at a private school. The owner of the place wanted to throw an extra computer monitor in the trash. Literally just put it in the dumpster. That relative saved the monitor and now I am using it. Bought a DVI to HDMI cable and it works great. It’s a 1680x1050 situash.
Agreed. The waste factor is appalling
vs income gains since 1970
I hope you do correct for inflation.
I did.
that’s because America shits billionaires.
Nonono don’t do it!!
Just look how it went in Germany, they went from 40 to 35 and then last year they overtook Japan as the 3rd largest economy in the world.
But if they had kept 40 hour work week, they might have done that a year earlier.I tell you 32 hour work week will be an absolute disaster, marriages will break because people will have time to spend together. This is why the christian right will oppose this tooth and nail, and you should too.
/s
Inb4 Fox News later today
I’ll tell you hwat. 32 hour work week will be an absolute disaster, marriages will break because people will have time to spend together. This is why the christian right will oppose this tooth and nail, and you should too.
- Economist who chose to remain anonymous due to fear of liberal cancel culture.
Them being cancelled because they said something dumb doesn’t mean they weren’t cancelled. But I’m convinced economists can’t be cancelled, Jonathan Gruber and Paul Krugman proved that.
The drones might have time to think and get ideas above their station. Next thing you know, they’ll start objecting to being maximally exploited at every turn! Letting them off the leash, even a little, will have disastrous effects for their owners, I tell you!
Dogs and cats, living together! Mass heysteria!
Hyuck, hyuck, I get this refernce, ya fucking nerd!
I am in Germany, how do I get a 35 hour work week without working part time? Every contact I’ve ever had has said 40 hours, not including breaks, with an expectation of overtime going up to 50 hours (legal maximum) unpaid.
OK now I’m confused, because I was pretty sure Germany introduced 35 hour work week already in the 90’s, just like Denmark reduced to 37.5 hours.
Here the 37.5 is actually the norm for full time work. I thought it was 35 in Germany, but I can’t even find anything on the introduction of 35 hours in the 90’s ???But apparently the AVERAGE which is a completely different measure, is 34.2 in 2020.
https://blog.emerald-technology.com/working-hours-germany
34.2 hours as of 2020
I apologize if I misrepresented the situation in Germany.
I agree with the sentiment. But the case with Germany and Japan wasn’t so much Germany overtaking but rather Japan sloping down (Japan’s strict working hours/culture probably played a part in this though).
What I’m saying is that there are other factors than work hours that determine productivity. Job satisfaction is a major factor too.
Isn’t Germany the country where they’re burning wood to keep warm in the winter?
Absolutely, wood pellets and stoker furnaces are brilliant, as they work very well, and is a near CO2 neutral source of heat.
We do that too here in Denmark 7th richest country in the world, and I bet they also do in Norway and Switzerland, the 2nd and 3rd richest countries in the world.
We have both stoker furnace for central heating and a windowed stove in the living room for traditional firewood. The brilliance with the stove is that it has higher energy utilization than any other heat source. And it creates hygge in the living room in the long cold winter evenings.Let’s make a point that has nothing whatsoever to do with the original point so i can maintain my bullshit opinion.
I don’t see a path forward that doesn’t start with the US government making the change first. They are one of the only employers that don’t have market competition.
Some departments in the US government give you a paid time off day every week to use however you want. A lot of people would take every Friday off, or some would stash them for a longer vacation.
It’s wild to me how internally the government offers the kind of benefits politicians should’ve pushed into law a long time ago. It really is “for Me, not for Thee”.
Source: worked in one of those departments
I work in the Federal Government, and this isn’t true. You have alternative work schedules (4/10s, 5/4/9, maxiflex, etc.) but you’re still going to work 80 hours unless you take leave. You gain annual leave every pay period and the amount is dependent on how long your federal service has been. But when you start (1-3 years) you only get 4 hours per pay period.
Maybe you’re seeing people who have long federal service (15 years) that gain 8 hours/pay period use their leave. That’s their choice but they’re still working 40 hours on paper regardless.
Which jobs give you four day weeks as of now?
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Not trying to call you out or anything, just my googlefu couldn’t find anything about any government jobs that did this. All I found was companies and other countries that were trying it out.
I feel like it would be big news if that was an option for people seeking employment anywhere.
They don’t. A few offices have a 40 hour 4 day week. They are missing shit up.
The only ones I know of that do this have you work four 10s. You still work the 40 hours.
Literally everything US politicians and billionaires do is “rules for thee, but not for me”. Even running for president.
Giving a benefit to government workers only requires a president to write an executive order.
Making a benefit into a law that affects all workers requires the House, Senate, President, and SCOTUS to all get on board.
Definitely true, but you never hear conservatives complaining about all the paid leave they get or the healthcare benefits they enjoy.
If some conservative president really wanted to walk the talk, they’d axe all those benefits for everyone.
They are walking the talk; they do not believe all people deserve equal treatment. Their worldview is inherently hierarchical.
wow, that’s like two and a half months of vacation
Some departments in the US government give you a paid time off day every week to use however you want. A lot of people would take every Friday off, or some would stash them for a longer vacation.
Nope.
Source: worked in one of those departments
If you did, you had no idea what was going on.
An agency can’t just “give” someone twice the leave accrual as the max. People were probably doing 4 days a week, 10 hours a day.
And you just didn’t understand
Bullshit. Fake news. Made up.
As a European libertarian, americans and people in some far eastern countries work at their jobs way too much. It’s harmful in every kind of way imaginable. I don’t understand why it’s done.
I get that some profession may benefit from it, but having standard office personnel sit at their desk 12 hours every day? What the fuck. I refuse to believe this improves company profits in 90% of the companies.
I’m self employed.
There’s an infinite amount of work for me to do, but like most professions its intellectually, emotionally and mentally taxing.
Honestly, I can’t do much more than 4 hours of real actual work per day.
Same here. I did a complete carreer change from STEM (robotics engineering) into visual arts, and I’m happier than ever, but the intense mental work required means I do ~4 hours of actual developed work a day, then spend the next 4-6 hours doing the art equivalent of menial work (fixing the quality of small lines, slightly tweaking colours etc)
Hey that’s interesting! I have a degree in computer science and work as a software developer but also a masters in visual arts (photography). I never managed to break free from my developer gig, because of the financial stability it provides, but I already burned out, recovered and feel it’s an endless cycle. Like you, doing art made me so happy and it bothers me every day I can’t seem to get my life turned around in that direction.
Do you have any tips in that regard? How did you get started? Did you transition softly or just quit your job there and then? And what then? Did you have network? Can you live off your art?
I have so many questions, please point this fellow STEM in the right direction to break free :)
I’m sorry to say that I don’t have a lot of advice to give. I just got so fed up one day, that I decided the risk of starving to death wasn’t enough to stop me from changing fields.
How did you get started?
I built a small portfolio, anything I could get together and had some level of quality really. As artists we’re often harsh on ourselves, but the average person interested in commissions and freelance projects will be surprisingly undiscerning of your flaws, so don’t be too picky. Just make sure they’re finished art pieces, that’s what clients care most about. Then I made a profile in every social network/ freelance site I could think of.
Did you have network?
Nope, as we say in Brazil, I just “exposed my face to be slapped”.
Can you live off your art?
Barely, but yes - and the payout increases over time, as you get more comfortable, skilled and learn which corners you can cut without affecting the artwork. Keep in mind my cost of living is probably significantly lower than yours if you live in America or Europe.
I honestly don’t recommend following my footsteps - being more patient and building your artistic profile over a period, say one year, is almost certainly a better bet. Also, please don’t just quit without having the cash to sustain yourself for a while, in case things don’t pan out well.
Thanks man for the elaborate (and honest) answer! You often hear stories about how people just quit their jobs and magically everything will work out for them. It’s good to hear a more realistic view!
Real actual work you say?
That’s more than most employees do in a day, and often they have less say in the impact of it.
Im working 40, and in recent memory went thru long stretches of 60+, and also 0, when i was privileged enough to take a bit of extra time between jobs.
In my “free” time, i work on the art my heart wont let me not make. When working 40, i can manage an extra 10 hrs (maybe) on a good week doing the shit i actually feel im supposed to do. When i worked 65, i hardly did shit some weeks, other weeks id feel proud of 3 hrs. Youd think i could then manage 60, or 50, or at least 40 when unemployed then, right?
Lol, try 25 as a stretch goal. When u actually believe in ur work and want to give problems the time they deserve and the details the attention they need, you find that you get burned out pretty damn fast. Any more and the effort slips.
Granted, im not counting breaks in that number. If i work 4 hrs one day, i might do it in some 45 minute chunks, 1 ninety minute chunk, with numerous 15 minute breaks and 1 lasting between 90-120.
I get that ymmv, but im typically extolled (read: exploited) as a very hard worker in all my jobs, and we’re talking about the difference between working on the things that my soul demands versus what is typically rote, menial BS.
That’s an interesting summation and more or less my experience.
Like I can rack up 60 hours doing “stuff”, but the complex stuff where I’m really producing the most value is capped at 20 or 25 hours a week.
It’s been repeatedly shown to decrease company profits. As people work longer hours they amount of stuff they get done declines rapidly as they get tired. Their error rate also dramatically increases. This causes a rapid decline in overall productivity.
The issue is people believe that working longer hours is more productive in those cultures. Sadly people usually make decisions based upon unfounded beliefs not provable facts.
People also stress out and burn out more easily, which takes a toll on their health, which not only further reduces productivity, but also increases otherwise unnecessary medical costs
What the fuck. I refuse to believe this improves company profits in 90% of the companies.
It doesn’t. Hundreds of industry studies have been done, and they all point to the same conclusion. 40 hours of work is the absolute maximum you can squeeze out of a worker before you start to see productivity and quality take a sharp nosedive. Doesn’t matter if you’re a factory worker or an office drone, fatigue will set in and give increasingly diminished returns for every hour over that. 40 hour work weeks only became the standard across the United States because of Henry Ford actually listening to the people doing these studies.
I think part of the reason we haven’t shifted more towards a more balanced 30 hour work week despite the absolutely massive increase in productivity thanks to computerization and automation is because management positions attract individuals who strongly believe that more effort = more results, and that probably rings true for managerial positions where the most alpha-minded ones who work extra hard above and beyond the job’s expectations are the ones to typically get the promotions and thus become industry leaders themselves in time.
Consider how much time people spend on Facebook or TikTok or whatever while on the job. Consider how much time is spent “looking busy” when in reality you might just be dragging out the task you are on so that you are not assigned more busywork. This is all a product of people having jobs that demand they be present and paid for 40 hours worth of labor, but a great deal of it is “performative labor” where they are not actually producing, but can’t afford to clock out early because wages are based on how long you are at work, and rarely commission based, so there’s no incentive to produce more for the same pay so long as you are meeting expectations/quotas.
A coworker “above me” (we don’t have titles at this job so we can’t determine our value) just said the other day: “I don’t get this generation. Imagine calling out because you don’t feel well in my time? You went to work because you needed it, you cough and people know to stay the fuck away from you. If you called out you would just get fired and the job would keep chugging.”
That’s viewed as a GOOD place to work at by some fucking insane people… America is the land of the blind slave.
“That’s how you get pandemics.”
I don’t understand why it’s done.
Useful idiots proud to work for their overlords.
or y’know people trying to support and feed themselves and/or their families and hoping to somehow scrounge up enough savings to be able to lose it all for medical reasons or on a house
We’re discussing why they choose to structure society that way.
These arguments have been going on for generations, and Americans tend to be useful idiots proud to work for their overlords.
yes because the modern worker who is in the group that would be most directly affected by Sanders’ proposal were involved in building the current work culture in america and totally have a choice about participating in it today.
…what? Are you being sarcastic?
I think you spend too much time on these forums and you’re playing leapfrog with yourself.
Try to be more direct and clear about what you want to say.
Own your argument!
Ask questions if you’re confused. Follow your own advice before giving it out.
The first thing I asked was a question…
You are clearly not trying to “discuss anything”. Making glib generalizations and dismissing major reasons why people work excessive hours shows you would rather victim blame than actually have a discussion. And if you believe most Americans are “proud to work for overlords”, then you are buying into the overlords propaganda.
Yes, but the question is why the overlords choose to do this when it doesn’t benefit them in any way.
Many people work 12h shifts but that’s not super common in office jobs.
I had a US colleague that was ranting to me (a European) that people would still take calls just before having surgery and the moment the anastatics would have worn off work again. So I asked why not root for Bernie as he wants to do a more Scandinavian model (did not use the world socialism because reasons). Answer was no, would not be able to vote for him. Well…
Man, you’re talking about a “radical”, “extremist” politician who self-identifies as a (democratic) socialist.
Here in the US, most people from the poorest, least-educated states will simply never vote for a Democrat. That’s not an exaggeration. The only reason Nikki Haley got so much attention despite never being viable is because with our 2-Party system she was considered the only non-Trump option for many people in these flyover states. Add in the outsized influence they have in the Senate and the undemocratic Electrical College… We’re fucked.
I hear you my internet friend. Add to the fact that republicans want to keep their supporters dumb by further undermining education and it starts to look quite grim. Reforming the current 2 party system and electoral collage would be a common sense thing to do, but I fear this is only wishful thinking. Large corps with infinite money will keep driving the direction of a country and the politicians are just the workforce for them to execute on it. Same goes for the foreign influence (read Putin’s clerk boy Trump).
Now more paries does not mean better either. I mean I look at how things go in my country where we have over a dozen parties, ans now 4 of them trying to form a coalition, takes months. And unfortunately also here we are going further to the right and slowly embrace fascism.
Time for a new french style revolution I guess…
A good third of Americans are subhuman. They are proud to be stupid, abused, and evil.
Sometimes I imagine what America would be like if Bernie had enough votes to pass his bills.
I always vote for him when he’s at the polls, since 2 decades ago. But the oligarchy of this nation will never allow him in position of power to implement these changes.
The reality of America is that our owners have no interest in making life better for the us, the common man, their only interest to bleed us as much as they can for their own selfish agenda. And the American people are collectively still too stupid to understand how it all works.
He also spoke earlier about Israel breaking the US law by disrupting Us Humanitarian Aid.
So that’s two things the rest of the party will ignore him on?
Everyday until closing time, forever.
Tbf they ignore him on everything and that’s why I do too. He’s been in politics forever and can’t get anything done ever. Sure it’s the fault of the party for ignoring his good ideas, but it’s also his for being so bad at politics that he can’t even get the backing of his own party. How was he ever going to beat Trump if not even the Democrats like him? He says nice things but he’s ineffectual
Actually, Bernie is known as The Amendment King for being able to get shit done in Congress.
Bernie Sanders is an Independent, he runs in the Democratic primaries for the Democratic Presidential nomination but he sits in Congress as an Independent.
Even less effective
If doing the right thing isn’t effective then we’re truly doomed
Sometimes things that sound nice aren’t the right thing.
Nobody would be good enough.
I mean they have to be good enough to win right? And Bernie can’t, he’s proven he can’t win. So what’s the point of him but words?
In any case Bernie is old as shit, that’s why I don’t want him. I honestly laugh at the hypocrisy of his supporters calling out the age of Biden, Trump, Pelosi and McConnell, while asking for Bernie.
You misunderstand. Nobody would be good enough for YOU. You will find something else to be angry over and will project it there.
Incomplete article by The Hill… Actually, the more I look at it this is a bad article. The only current bill introduced to the Congress is from last year by a different Representative. Bernie put out yesterday (the 13th) that he will be introducing a bill on Thursday the 14th (2024-03-14). It’s only 0600 local time Washington, D.C. so it hasn’t happened yet. And it would be very strange to he is introducing another act in the same session (118th).
H.R.1332 - Thirty-Two Hour Workweek Act since they couldn’t even link to the bill.
Congress.gov has the sponsor as Rep. Takano, Mark [D-CA-39] (Introduced 03/01/2023).
Long title: Official Title as Introduced
To amend the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 to reduce the standard workweek from 40 hours per week to 32 hours per week, and for other purposes.
I’ve noticed that I get the same amount of work done working 5 days a week as if I plan to only work 3/4 days and know I’ll have some free time to enjoy life. My work is really project based so as long as it gets done no one cares.
My wife has also noticed that I’m a lot more stressed when I work 5 days a week and need pretty much the whole weekend to recover.
It’s LONG overdue. Been saying this for years. Reducing the stress, increasing free time (and therefore things like family time, innovation time, etc.) would vastly overhaul our society. Productivity has risen for decades while wages remain stagnant and work-life balance, if anything, has worsened.
Productivity has risen for decades while wages remain stagnant and work-life balance, if anything, has worsened.
Wages are determined by balance of power.
work-life balance, if anything, has worsened.
I don’t believe that(but that’s just my gut feeling). I think its fair to say that demand of work-life balance has increased though.
Depends on the field but since the pandemic I see folks being"connected" to work in unimaginable ways where they are constantly answering emails or working from home to complete work in their evenings and weekends. Just logging into teams at anytime on a weekend I can see at least a few people online working. This wasn’t the case pre pandemic.
Logging in on the weekend reinforces this norm. If people see you are online, it lessens any cognitive dissonance they have with the voice in the back of their head saying “this is some bullshit, this is my day off.”
There was a time when if someone wanted to reach you after hours they had to call your house and leave a message on your answering machine. now you have “bosses” that get pissy if you take 5 minutes to respond to a text in the middle of the night.
Bernie is an example of what a progressive politician actually looks like.
American politicians (Republicans AND Democrats) have been moving steadily to the right for the last 40 years. So now, Democrats are where the Republicans were in the 1980s, boring corporatists and friends of banks, pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
And the Republicans have moved all the way into an insane asylum. They long for the “good old days” of company towns, run by 19th century robber barons and worry that the six corporations that control all our news are the “liberal news media.”
This will never pass because we aren’t seen as people with families and lives. We’re seen as labor. Tools to keep the machine running and making money for corporations and its executives.
While a small tangent, I agree. I used to work 4x10 each week. Had done that for over a decade. Having a 3 day weekend really helped. When I got my current position I was moved to 5x8. I’m now endlessly tired, I can’t get the weekend projects done, etc. Because you’re just getting out of work, or getting ready to start work again, there’s no break. So if this ends up being 4x8, that would be great! Keep my hours and get my weekend back. Though I assume corporate USA will find some way to muck it up, like the RTO bullshit.
I totally feel you! I did 12h shifts 4 days a week the absolute difference with 5x8 in crazy! I’ve never been so tired and that’s including my night time stint doing that as well!
This makes the election really simple later. Vote against whoever opposed or brought any friction to this bill whatsoever…which will be pretty much everyone.
America should make Bernie their Emperor.
It would have been really nice to have had him as a president for a term. He’d be doing all the same things he’s doing now, but with more authority. It would have been really interesting to watch mainstream media have a meltdown over everything he put forward.
I often dream of that alternative universe where Bernie became president instead of Biden…
Our instead of Trump.
Dammit we’ve been over this so many times!
