Many of [the voters] stayed home, and some of them voted for Donald Trump," he said. "But they are now feeling very clearly that they made a big mistake. And, you know, sort of like the kid who gets in trouble and his parents send him to his room and he goes out there and starts throwing stuff around… in a pique of anger. All he’s got is a mess and that’s what we’ve got here.
Now that some of them have (maybe?) woken the hell up, I’d like to see a shit-ton of apologies from those that bought into the concerted gEnOcIdE narrative to put donvict into office.
I am pretty sure that most of those pushing that narrative are not going to apologize, because I know the type, and they are very stubborn. They pretty much got what they want - many of them are, at root, nihilists. And that’s just the ones that are not Russian trolls, who have mostly clammed up for the time being.
concerted gEnOcIdE narrative
Disgusting wacko here.
Who demands an apology from the victims of genocide? Peak liberal entitlement to genocide.
No USA voter is the victim of genocide…what the fuck are you even talking about???
Well, strawman arguments and calling me names is certainly a good argument. I guess?
It’s technocrit, I have them tagged as smagbrained troglodyte for a reason
People here still blaming this on minority voters are deafeningly silent on party leadership holding the coalition hostage over AIPAC funding
Stop directing your anger at people being robbed of basic representation instead of political actors who are gleefully accepting blood money to turn against their constituents and a blind eye to genocide
Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks mentioned.
They could have defended the lives of Palestinians and acknowledged that the genocide was happening.
It was Biden’s press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those “other voters” that Israel wasn’t doing anything wrong. They drew that line themselves, not anyone who was protesting the genocide.
And this is how trump got elected. Have some self awareness and knowledge of game theory.
Why do you criticize regular people about game theory and not the actual people crafting the strategy to win an election?
I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed for Trump because party leadership didn’t properly encourage them to vote for Harris idiotic. Everyone has a duty to educate themselves about their vote. Shifting blame to the DNC is both patronizing and destructive. The DNC sucks… You know who else sucks? people who didn’t stand up against Trump. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.
I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed […] idiotic
Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks
These two sentences are in contradiction
Here, see if you can spot the double standard:
“The [voters] suck… You know who else sucks? [the DNC] who didn’t stand up against [Israel]. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.”
I don’t understand. You are quoting two different posts, then concluding that two different people with different viewpoints represents a “double standard”… That is also an idiotic take.
With that said, OPs comment asking what the DNC could have done isn’t contradictory or hypocritical if you put it alongside my viewpoint. It simply illustrates that you will never make every voter happy on every plank of your platform. We are all different people with different goals. Democracy is about compromise and understanding that the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. Certain non-voters attitude became “because neither side aligns with my very specific interest, I’m just not voting! That’ll show the Dems that they can’t win unless they support [insert political viewpoint here].”. To go back to my elephant analogy, it’s like those people saying “I’m going to starve because i can’t eat the elephant in one bite!”
So for some people, their line in the sand is a humanitarian Gaza policy, which will likely require a strong military presence to enforce ceasefires and aid deployment. For others it’s a distaste for overseas military actions, and any intent to increase American involvement in the middle east. One side is pissed off and won’t vote if it looks like you are abandoning Palestinians. The other side is pissed off if you suggest increasing military operations in the region, even if it’s to deescalate Israeli aggression. You can’t please both.
So voters from both of these camps chose to sit on their vote because they couldn’t get what they wanted… In exchange they helped someone that is likely destructive to both camps’ larger interests, as well as their specific interests discussed above, get elected. That is their right and choice. Just like it’s my right and choice to call them out for supporting fascism through inaction.
Looking at it that way, I’m not sure how you could say our viewpoints are contradictory.
Certain non-voters attitude became […] “I’m just not voting”
Ok, now apply that criticism to those who (hypothetically) wouldn’t have voted if Biden had stopped supplying military aid to Israel.
The Democrats created that block of voters by repeatedly lying about their knowledge of Israel’s war crimes. Not only could they have done the right thing by withholding their offensive aid from Israel, they could have also not lied about it.
Democrats tried obscuring the scale of devastation in gaza with their own involvement, and then lost because they got caught and then doubled down. You can’t treat your constituents with that much contempt and expect not to lose those voters, and then post-rationalize the lie by claiming that they would have lost more voters had they been honest and intervened.
You seem to think the election was more about punishing Biden for Gaza than preventing trump from destroying America.
Those were the only two choices. Period.
The thing that you don’t want to admit here is that you chose trump. You in part made this current reality happen while we tried to prevent it.
Gaza will be gone and you will have literally helped trump do it by not voting Harris.
That fact will never change.
We know they’re war-criminals. There’s still a difference between that and leveling the place for a hotel. Trump gleefully accepted $100m from Adelson for the west bank.
Stop assuming we’re pro-dems and not just anti-trump.
Stop assuming we’re pro-dems and not just anti-trump.
This is the shit that drives me nuts. No matter how many fucking times you explain it, they just cannot wrap their heads around this for some reason. Or they refuse to.
I’m not accusing anyone of being pro-dems, I’m pointing out that this line of reporting is intentionally misdirecting anger at voters - who can literally only react to the policies and governance of the democrats as they are - instead of the democrats sabotaging themselves for thinking they could have their cake and eat it too.
Thinking that the democrats could participate in a highly-publicized genocide and not lose any voters is folly, but then turning around blaming the voters for the loss of votes is beyond hubris and well into delusion. Anyone with eyes could see this loss coming from a mile away and was screaming at the democrats to change course.
I’m not assuming you’re pro-dems, I’m pointing out that their loss is entirely attributable to their own political mis-calculation on top of their efforts to gaslight Americans about their roll and knowledge of the crimes being committed on their behalf.
Blaming voters for reacting to the Democrats’ policy decisions - including the moderates they alienated - is simply yet another attempt to obscure the facts that lead us to this moment.
Probably more to do with the mass delusion and post truth world we live in.
And yes, enabling the greater evil is a failing of the people who voted against their interests because less evil wasn’t good enough.
enabling the greater evil is a failing of the people who voted against their interests
Democrats enabled the greater evil by ignoring the interests of the constituencies they needed to win. It doesn’t matter if the lesser evil is objectively the right choice - they still need millions of people to go to the booth and make that choice, and nobody has more control over voter enthusiasm than the democrats themselves.
This is nobody’s fault but the democrats.
That is literally the fucking opposite of how voting works. You only got two choices for a winner here Biden or trump and not voting Biden = trump.
You guys seem to think there’s a 3rd option here.
First past the post voting literally shows otherwise. You are a fool.
They did enable the greater evil, but it was voters who ultimately put them in office, not Democrats. The buck stops with the voters. Or it did - they made sure it won’t any more.
it was voters who ultimately put them in office
Guess I’ll just repeat myself:
“they still need millions of people to go to the booth and make that choice, and nobody has more control over voter enthusiasm than the democrats themselves”
If you want to play games with abstracting agency away from the people who had control of the entire situation, go nuts. But not only did the democrats have every opportunity to make the case for themselves, but they also dug the grave they’re now laying in by building their platform around AIPAC money (and large corporate donors) to begin with.
The democrats simply cannot win with the political machine they’ve constructed anymore.
Congratulations on helping trump win. You’re partially responsible when Gaza goes bye bye. Not the Dems.
Surely you see the difference between Democratic leadership and the masses that believe in some semblance of humanity. I swear your short-sighted goal of overthrowing the system has resulted in millions of Americans marching goose step and lining trans children up for the slaughter.
Own your part now or history will not look kindly upon you and your ilk. You are right, but also very wrong.
I swear your short-sighted goal of overthrowing the system has resulted in millions of Americans marching goose step and lining trans children up for the slaughter.
Those kids had already been placed in that line by the system you’re defending - half the states in the union had already been targeting them while democrats were at the helm, and now the democrats have the audacity to be blaming their loss on being too trans-friendly.
They aren’t regretting here yet. I make comments about it and get brigade against. Hey Dearborn Palestinians for Trump: you guys were completely ignorant, ignored everything that man said, and still held out hope he would be better for your people for some god known reason. Ya fucked up.
The election was three months ago. These constant attempts to relitigate it are just an attempt by the right to divide the left.
The truth is there is blame on both sides. Those who stayed home hold some responsibility, and the Biden admin is also to blame for shunning their own base.
But now we have bigger fish to fry. There’s a constitutional crisis on, and a united front is needed against the right. Fuck the dividers. When someone tries to divide the left, call them out on it or downvote them to hell. They’re either a conservative or a Russian troll.
The right didn’t need help to divide the left this election. The left did it itself. The American left splintered into toxic little sub groups who all hated each other, saw each other as unworthy allies and called each other fascists for being even slightly right or even left of each other. Meanwhile the right was unified and laughing at the left who so easily felll for the right’s manufactured war
Yeah. There were a lot of people saying they wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris due to one issue, even though Trump wouldn’t be an improvement on that one issue they wouldn’t vote for Biden on.
Now they’re angry that Democrats have very little power to resist Trump.
Those who stayed home hold some responsibility
Second most of the responsibility, actually (actual Trump voters take the most responsibility). They screwed up, and now we’re all paying the price.
But now we have bigger fish to fry. There’s a constitutional crisis on, and a united front is needed against the right.
Also true. If Trump voters and non-voters realize that they screwed up badly and want to work to fix it, then we need to accept their apology, forgive them, and let them stand with the rest of civilized humanity in countering Trump, Must, and their goons.
They will never realize this. They think game theory isn’t real and voting 3rd party means they’re better than Dems even though they enabled trump. It’s the worst virtue signaling possible. Gaza will pay the price for their hubris.
The left is divided already. In the ways these folks voluntarily decided to do. It’s not now that others are pointing it out that the divisions are occurring. How much more gentle do others need to be around the ones who made this mistake? How much more hand holding?
The Left isn’t divided, it’s unrepresented.
The Democrats are a conservative capitalist party, which might be better than a fascist party but it’s still right-wing.
They aren’t regretting here yet.
How many pro-trump muslims do you think exist on Lemmy?
Y’all are crying about demographic groups that are statistically nonexistent.
I guess libs are the real victims of the genocide that they support. \s
Every single one that voted 3rd party helped trump…and there are tons on Lemmy.
You’re scapegoating 40,000 people who have lost family members in the genocide for not voting for the killers and using Dearborn as a slur at this point. Less people voted for Trump there than the national average. Keep proving you’re a Nazi.
Fuck the Nazis, but also fuck the conservative Muslims that can’t vote for a woman.
fuck the
conservative Muslimspeople thatcan’twon’t vote for awomangenocide.FTFY.
BROTHER THAT WOMAN GOT THE MUSLIMS VOTING FOR THE MUSLIM BAN GUY GET A FUCKING GRIP
Yeah she just made them by doing what exactly.
Chosing the only possible winner over trump isn’t a hard choice…yes I can swallow current genocide for Gaza to possibly still exist in the future. You picked accelerated genocide.
that can’t vote for a woman.
That wasn’t the reason and others have already given you receipts. You just can’t stand that your genocide isn’t as popular with Muslims as it is with centrists.
Fuck Isreal and what they did to the Palestinians. But I’m on the ground here and there were plenty of people that refused to listen to the words straight from Trump’s mouth. They held Muslims for Trump rallies. Their political and spiritual leaders told them to either vote for trump or abstain. They met with the man believing he would not only de-escalate but bring peace when he’s vehemently supported Isreal in the past. Complete stupidity and voting against their best interests. Now they live in fear of ICE stopping by their neighborhoods and sending naturalized citizens back, something unheard of before. Take some responsibility and make the necessary changes. I refuse to accept the Democrats going more conservative on things like gay and women’s rights. Either everyone has rights or no one does, and we are seeing the no one version right now.
But I’m on the ground here and there were plenty of people that refused to listen to the words straight from Trump’s mouth. They held Muslims for Trump rallies. Their political and spiritual leaders told them to either vote for trump or abstain.
What did you expect would happen when centrists ditched the only common cause the party had with Muslims?
Take some responsibility and make the necessary changes.
Because the party never fucking will. Ever.
I refuse to accept the Democrats going more conservative on things like gay and women’s rights.
Remember that when they do. Because they absolutely will. Resist the temptation to just point to their opponent and excuse everything Democrats do on the grounds that Republicans are worse.
You’re a low information voter
Motherfucker, literally 65% voted for women.
“Trump won 42% of the vote in Dearborn, with Harris receiving 36%.”
pay no attention to the other woman on the ballot
Stein wasn’t on my ballot in Indiana.
She was in Michigan, which is where Dearborn is
Pay no attention to how fptp works…
“Not voting for the killers” is REALLY a stretch here.
Honestly if Palestine is your one and only policy, not voting was the right choice.
It was well known from Trump’s first term, and everything the man has ever said, that he would encourage attacks on Palestinians vs the Dems who simply stood by and let it happen.
There’s a big difference between not voting for someone who won’t help and actually voting for someone who hates you and will unapologeticly help your enemy kill you.
A lot of Dearborn’s Arab population is Palestinian and Lebanese and had/have family at risk of being killed. You know when those 2,000 pound bombs get shipped to Israel they actually get dropped on people and kill them, right?
Right. And then they voted for it.
“There’s a big difference between not voting for someone who won’t help and actually voting for someone who hates you and will unapologeticly help your enemy kill you.”
Not when you have first past the post voting. None of you actually realize you helped trump by voting 3rd party.
Awwww. Maybe if people actually had been reading the news they may have seen this coming. Now it’s only the leopards.
Yes ofc I saw this coming when the dems decided to support genocide. Another loser candidate. Who could be surprised?
Guess who’s face is being eaten right now, dude? Its literally yours…lol Get a fucking clue. You picked this.
Which news? The one that downplayed everything he said, or the one that never mentioned a single thing he said?
Every non fox like news channel covered project 2025, and fox even had a few stories. Sure, there could have been more alarm bells raised, but not many down played the seriousness of it. You’d have to be completely ignorant of his intentions to think he wouldn’t go through with almost everything he said he would. It’s still on them for somehow not believing it.
No no…it was the one that justified everything he said and sane-washed it as being “not that bad”.
Oh, the one that said “you can’t take what he says at face value”? Thank you for clarifying, I wasn’t sure.
Yeah mate! That one! The one that says “he’s just joking! No body is allowed to make jokes these days.” Unless he was actually serious, in which case, “it’s a masterclass strategy by our genius leader.”
You know…that one.
Most muslims I know saw right through the bullshit, but it seems there is a growing dumb fringe in all communities. Two were very vocal about Biden but ultimately supported Kamala as (in their view) the obvious lesser evil. That even one would vote for the guy who put a ban on Muslims in his first term will always baffle me as the most stupid shit I’ve ever witnessed
Edit the n+1th most stupid after the nth things diaper don doesThey didn’t need all Muslim voters.
They needed “enough” Muslim voters. They peeled some off. And some voters on the economy and some voters on other issues.
The glaring issue with Palestine is that they were basically silent on it. Harris needed some daylight with Biden, but she chose the VP hat over her candidate hat and kept her mouth shut. (Or she doesn’t disagree with biden’s response. Which would also be problematic…)
I was so happy when she took over because she’d have the freedom to distance herself from Biden on the issues that were killing him (apart from the obvious senility). Instead she just kept trying to make everyone knew she approved of everything he did. What a terrible terrible mistake.
yeah, I’m with you on that.
She could have been respectful. "as VP it’s my job to stand by my president, and I will continue to do that- as VP. but as a candidate? I gotta say here’s how I will be doing things differently… "
And lets just be completely honest with Biden on gaza- He spent most of that time giving Netanyahu a blow job even though Netty was fucking him over by supporting trump.
Which apart from the moral issues, really made it seem like he was not prepared to handle our current political situation. Netanyahu was lying to him over and over, clearly wanting to support his fellow far-right candidate, and Biden just blithely pretended they were the best of allies, never wanting to give any offense or entertain the thought that an Israeli leader might have his own agenda separate from the both us and the Israeli people.
So, like I’m going to preface this with saying its open secrets, so these are only reported numbers. (that list is the top 20 from 1990 to 2024, and is specifically members of congress, so I’m not sure if it includes donations during his presidential campaigns.)
but like. As a member of congress, Biden received more money from pro-israel groups than any other candidate. To the tune of 4+ million. His loyalty was bought. it was bought a while ago.
Holy shit, almost double the next person. Dude is in the twilight of his career, he could have told them to fuck off with little consequences at this point.
Which apart from the moral issues, really made it seem like he was not prepared to handle our current political situation. Netanyahu was lying to him over and over, clearly wanting to support his fellow far-right candidate, and Biden just blithely pretended they were the best of allies,
Pretended? They were and remain the best of allies. US democracy was secondary to whatever Netanyahu wanted.
Allies go both ways. Netanyahu was never looking out for the interests of Joe Biden or even the wider United States.
Instead she just kept trying to make everyone knew she approved of everything he did.
And the refrain from the pro-genocide center was “she can’t undermine him! WhAt Do YoU eXpEcT hEr tO dO?!” But they were silent when she moved to his right.
They didn’t need all Muslim voters.
They certainly acted like they wanted zero of them.
Oh yeah.
the entire attitude was “Well, you’re not gonna go vote for trump, so, lets go after people who will never vote for me, instead.”
Which, I seem to recall trying to explain to Dems that this election was going to come down to who lost more of their base… I hate being right.
It’s a fringe that was a minority irrelevant to the election result but a favorite punching bag for liberals who’d rather do that than confront people in their own community and social networks. All the white racists they know get a pass, because they were just mistaken or misled, but they have passionate anger for minority voters who were witnessing an active genocide for not having 100% Democratic turnout.
We need to be very clear that white people, in almost every demographic - men, women, 18-55, 55+, non-college educated went solidly, majority Trump. THAT is the biggest problem, and it’s what needs to be fixed if the Republicans are ever going to get dislodged. Blaming groups that “only” voted 75-80% Harris is not helpful, and is exactly the kind of unproductive sniping the Republicans encourage and celebrate when we do it.
If you are not a white male billionaire, and you voted for Trump, or didn’t vote, you’ve made life worse for yourself (and everybody else) in multiple, awful ways, and should feel stupid about it. I’m sure most people will figure that out eventually, even if it is too late. Asking people how Trump has made their life better rather than telling them they’re idiots will probably get them there faster.
The Democratic party’s strongest, winning platform would to directly address the needs of people who work for a living, which is basically everybody, as opposed to the current “we rig the economy for billionaires… LESS!” Yes, Biden actually did many good things for working people, but he mixed it in with enough fellating the 1% that is was easy to make the (correct) conclusion that the wasn’t all in on it. Heck, Trump actually said some of the right things on that front. He was obviously lying, and anybody with a memory better than a goldfish (less than half the voters it seems) knew that, but at least he pretended to care about it.
Democrats need to focus on that. If that messaging ever got going seriously, Republicans would be too busy panic screeching about communism to spend their time telling people which bathroom they could use. The reason making tje economy work for the 99% isn’t front and center is because neither the Republican nor the Democratic leadership will allow that conversation to happen.
I still believe this was a targeted campaign to get dems to sit out. Their strategy is to spread as much shit as possible, and as soon as they see something that sticks, push it hard. It’s sad, but this strategy is extremely effective against the left because we’re all too eager to find a reason not to support the dems.
The only defence is to be aware of this strategy. Rather than shit on people, try to explain how they’ve been duped so next time they have a chance of noticing.
You’re right, and that’s why it’s the DNC/harrisncampaign’s fault.
Harris needed to put daylight on the issue, and instead just assumed “yeah but trump is worse” would actually be effective.
They didn’t reach voters and basically allowed gop propaganda and lies to reach their base without answer.
They just assumed voters were there like in ‘16, and this time the voters told them they weren’t. And here we are.
She should have done all of that, but they would have just found a different wedge issue.
Y’all have so much hindsight, but ignore the complete stranglehold that the Israel lobby has on politics in this country. Coming out in support of Palestine would have been the death knell for any candidate.
Don’t overestimate the size of your demographic just because you choose to live in a bubble.
This is some revisionist bullshit. She told you how bad it will be. You said nuh uh.
Now the leopard is eating your face.
I’m sure it was advertised and amplified for electoral purposes, but this wasn’t some drummed up issue. No one made Biden send all that support or made Harris avoid the issue. This wasn’t some purity test for an obscure policy that the administration was powerless to change, it was a major moral issue that was directly related to their choices and fully within their power to address. No one should ever have been surprised to see Muslims being driven away from the party for ignoring a genocide being perpetrated with American weapons playing out across all our smartphones. Like, duh, of course they’re not going to turn out.
Here’s the very expert they’re quoting here warning the Democrats about it.
There is almost no greater wedge issue that could have been used to shatter the left.
Yes, actual leftists oppose genocide.
Actual leftist oppose fascism. You’re enabling this trump genocide and fascism at the same time. Your high horse is a dachshund. Sit down.
Doesn’t matter - their technique will always find the greatest wedge issue because they start by spreading insane amounts of shit and use monitoring to find which ones are gaining traction. All this is a guess, but it’s such an obvious strategy that I’d be amazed if it wasn’t how they’re working.
I’m from the U.K., so I was lucky enough to experience what I believe was a PoC of this technique during our referendum for PR voting. That time, there were two wedge issues: baby incubators and - I hope I’m getting this right because my memory is hazy - bullet-proof vests for soldiers. Neither of those things were remotely related to the question… but as soon as they started to gain traction, they were pushed hard. Brexit was more money for the NHS. With Jeremy Corbin, it was support for Palestine. With Kamela, it was lack of support of Palestine. None of it needs to make sense, so long as it works as a wedge.
You remembered correctly https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12564879
For readers outside the UK, it should be added that even if the UK somehow really couldn’t afford the tiny fraction of its budget that the ads describe, the number was utter horseshit too. Whether or not there was any truth never mattered
Made this months ago:
It’s just the usual wedge between leftists who oppose genocide and right-wingers who support.
Why is it a wedge issue? Why are there pro-genocide Democrats? There shouldn’t even be pro-genocide Republicans.
<surprisedpiikachu.jpg>
Finally! On day 16 of 1460
“Expert” recites Democrat propaganda about blaming voters. Choir laps it up
Is this expert as expertly as Democrat campaign leaders?
I don’t think the expert is the problem here, during the election he wrote an opinion column titled “Democrats’ Unquestioning Support of Israeli War Crimes Puts 2024 at Increasing Risk”, it’s just that this news source has decided there’s more clicks in selling a “you didn’t do anything wrong my dear white affluent college educated liberal readers, it was those stupid fucking brown people” narrative to the 1996 crime bill defenders of the world
You got duped!
I love how in your opls minds the onus is always on the Dems to be perfect on every issue exactly how you want…or else you’re gonna help the GOP win.
Every fucking election you rubes let perfect be the enemy of good.
Fuckem.
These experts are pretty smart, i guess.
Where were they during the election?
It looks like they were relegated to the fringes of media while the core of imperial media completely supports genocide.
He was warning the Democrats that ignoring the issue was dangerous.
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/gaza-genocide-polling-election-2024
