Its not an unusual thing for lesbian couples to pick a new surname for themselves.
I’m pretty sure only people on the internet argue about this. No one actually cares what other’s do with their last name after marriage.
This post has 2017 reddit vibes. Not in a good way either.
People literally change their names because they feel like it, so I’m sure people do care outside the Internet, specially in circumstances of abuse.
Well, reddit turned to shit around 2014, so the fact it still sucked around 2017 can’t be a surprise?
People definitely care, but not about which side of the family or if it comes from mommy or daddy. Most people just want an “original” name.
Sorry OP but this kinda gives “EPIC: WOKE FEMINAZI OWNED ON CAMERA” vibes.
Yeah… it can be interpreted that way. But even as a feminist myself, it is a dumb performative sort of protest. Paternal surnames are the least important fixtures of our patriarchal society, and, unless it was created wholecloth, there are no surnames that aren’t patriarchal historically, as the meme points out.
Yeah, I wasn’t trying to call you a misogynist, just point out how the meme might look at first glance.
Wasn’t my post, just advocating for OP
oh, right
If they think their actions are having much effect, sure, but otherwise I think you’re making assumptions and overreacting. Not everything is for show, people can do things like that just because they personally want to.
The context of the meme implied she was doing it because she’s a feminist and that taking her mother’s name was somehow an expression of that. Of course she can do that, but it isn’t achieving anything if that was the goal
she is achieving and asserting herself, a right that is denied to her on most every other level.
names are symbols. taking ownership of your name may not be material, but it is meaningful. if names were meaningless, trans people wouldn’t change their names, African-American communities wouldn’t change their names, et cetera. but they do, and feminists do, because achieving oneself, having domain over oneself even to the extent of identity, is meaningful especially against a history where that right is restricted against you in favor of the dominant class.
Sure. It would be personally meaningful. Changing your name is always meaningful, I would hope. But it is not contributing to the the dismantling of the patriarchal norms. Not every action has to be, of course. But the conceit of this post is implied to be that her intention was just that, a rejection of patriarchal naming conventions. If that was her intention, it was misguided and failed to achieve that goal.
you take a conservative (lowercase c) approach to the concept more than i do, and that’s fine.
but from a holistic perspective, the very fact that we have this conversation proves my position. the symbols stand for something. they promote dialogue and awareness of patriarchal repression by subverting it. little girls can look to the woman who takes her own name and derive conviction of self worth and autonomy.
none of this means that taking one’s name is the ultimate be-all feminist act, but i just take issue with your characterization of it being “dumb performative.” i encourage you, as a self-proclaimed feminist, to reconsider heaping that kind of abuse onto people just extending their reach to where generations before was impossible. at worst you appear to be recentering patriarchal narratives, at best you’re being mean.
Okay, and? Why is your immediate thought to mock that?
I didn’t mock it. The meme did.
That’s the point, but satirically. The fact that homelander is the second frame immediately means the take is bad.
Sweet child… The amount of people who don’t see homelander is scary
Good point! But I also never saw it. Just know it from the comics and the news.
Also, the amount of people who don’t GET homeowner is scary…
Yeah, those homeowners and their… *checks notes Homes!
on reddit, sure. on lemmy?
Lemmy is no better than Reddit in terms of sexism and media literacy
[email protected] in particular has a weird propensity to anti-feminism that i don’t see elsewhere. i’ll get about 60% downvotes on this comment just as everywhere else in this thread just for saying so lol
something about the old school “relax librul it’s called dark humor” mindset is specially present here
I don’t think that’s obvious to anyone who hasn’t watched that movie/series/whatever. At least it wasn’t obvious to me, because I don’t know that guy.
OP’s comments don’t seem very satyrical :')
this lol. i would not be in this comment section if OP wasn’t obviously taking the side of homelander here. if there was ever satire in the post it was lost as soon as OP got their hands on it.
Not so sure. It may just as well be that OP thinks Homelander is the cool guy and the meme is meant unironically. Their comments here suggest that and their posts are mostly comprised of golf and borderline sexist / boomer jokes
Homelander is acting in character in this meme but Firecracker certainly is not.
It’s one of those posts that IS funny, but makes OP’s viewpoint ambiguous. And if this was reddit, incels would come out of the woodwork to support the meme.
I think that’s the intention, but in an ironic/satirical fashion.
Removed by mod
with no ill will for you, OP, genuinely fuck this boomer ass “joke”
a woman’s name is her name. she lives with it for 1 lifetime, absolutely no shorter than her grandfather does. “male” is not somehow the default human identity. stop trying to enforce that standard.
Love the little respectful preamble you put there, can we make that internet discussion standard plz.?
i support!
I think the point of the joke might be more that an attempt to start a matrilineal naming scheme is foiled somewhat from the fact that the maiden name of the mother is derived from her father, i.e. you can’t escape that the last names all come from patrilineal sources for generations.
If a woman is committed to the idea, she could break the patrilineal naming convention simply by creating herself a new last name, and encouraging her children to take that name instead of their father’s.
yes, though I think a naming system like this isn’t an individual act as much as occurs on the level of social norms and rules; a single individual won’t introduce a competing matrilineal naming system just by convincing her children into it…
Either way, I somewhat agree with the criticism of the joke that the last name coming from a patrilineal origin isn’t a gotcha, though maybe that’s actually the point of the meme since Homelander is the one posing it as a gotcha (and he’s a villain, so it would make sense to symbolize a misogynist with him). The name would still be inherited in a matrilineal way even if it started as a patrilineal name further up the chain.
I guess there is a question of whether the name’s origin matters at all when we are concerned with the patriarchial nature of a practice where women lose their family names and men don’t. That practice being disrupted is what matters, not what the actual name is.
This is true, but who decided that a woman keeping her maiden name is just using her father’s name? That idea comes from patriarchy. If I inherit something at birth, like a rare coin, it’s mine, whether it came from my mom or dad. The same goes for a woman’s name—it’s hers because she’s had it since birth. Suggesting she doesn’t own it, and must create a new name to escape, reinforces the idea that only patrilineal identity matters and undermines her autonomy in making that choice.
The important part is that it is her choice to do so or not. My suggestion is just one possible solution that could be used by those who choose to do so. I’m not pretending that it’s the only solution, nor am I pretending that it’s even the best solution.
love it :)
…yeah? exactly what i said? i don’t disagree at all except you possibly ignore that the butt of the joke is the woman, normalizing the very repression she attempts to subvert. it’s undermining and mocking the woman’s identity intentionally by asserting the dominance of patriarchal schemes over her own life and decision. (perhaps unintentionally, but nevertheless really.)
in America, historically Black names are also dominated by the history of slavery and white supremacy (different functions, but the end result: subjugation, is parallel). i would post a similar comment hating on a post mocking Black folk for resisting these patterns as well! :)
… just pass on the mother’s name to your children? Eventually it matters as much as that your ancestor was a smith. (and that’s besides the “not everyone wants to lose their name on marrying” point)
in my friend group we have a guy we describe as “default {name}”, in order to differentiate him from the other {name}s in the group. He’s a cisgender heterosexual white christian male (a rarity among us). Mostly it’s a joke, because we all agree that being mildly offensive is kinda funny, but it’s also a commentary on society at large. If you’re online talking to people you know nothing about, it’s a safe assumption (christian less and less as the years go by though).
It is absolutely ok to not be “default settings”. You’re not doing anything wrong by not confirming to that standard. I didn’t decide what default is, I learned it by observing society.
appreciate your insight! i fully agree with everything except perhaps:
You’re not doing anything wrong by not confirming to that standard.
still a correct statement on its own, but needs the clarification that it’s not chill to mock or hamper the efforts of that “Othered” community to subvert or reclaim their repression. while it’s certainly not wrong for a woman to conform to the patrilineal system, it’s not chill to “gotcha”-laugh at this woman for using the same name she and her mother have owned their whole lives.
it’s a very Rush Limbaugh-esque “you claim to he a feminist, yet you live under the forces and histories of the patriarchy, curious 🧐” joke, in that it’s not wrong, it’s just intensely and obviously comes from a place of ignorant disrespect.
Removed by mod
It’s a shit post, I’ll give you that.
I know this is a shitposting community but these are, every goddamn one of them, the dumbest possible takes you could have opened a new year with.
A quarter century into the new millenium and our general intelligence level hasn’t budged since the ice age.
I think it’s gone down tbh. The average human is not experiencing the same novel problems that require troubleshooting and focus. A lot of thought is just decision based these days.
According to the little arrows on our comments, there were like, two people really angered by this thought that some people think the rest of people are stupid. It’s amazing.
I don’t think stupid is the correct word, however I do think there are efforts to make independent thought and trouble shooting more difficult for the working class. There is a pretty large incentive for the ruling class to have the least educated population there can be.
When people get married they should come up with a completely new last name for them both.
We should use uuids
our beautiful baby boy Robert 3de2d34e-a089-4a5a-acd8-b00d7c7eb07a
I mean it’s not far off from Musk’s X AE ZigZag VII Advent Children and Kkkopernicus Diceware Password kids.
Oh yeah, little Bobby 3d we call him
Calm down Enoch Root
There’s even a website cataloguing them all! https://everyuuid.com/
I identify myself as a ULID.
UUID me daddy
came here to make this exact comment, was delighted it already exists XD
A coworker of mine did this. He and his new wife took parts of their last names and blended them together to create a unique new last name for both of them.
I hope it wasn’t a tragedeigh
That’s very cool, i like that
Terrible idea. People clearly already struggling at naming kids. Coming up with a family name will be endless letters making the wrong sound, random sections being ‘silent’, so many puns or references to things, corporate advertising “oh it’s the X.com family!”… Terrible, just terrible.
We could always do what Iceland does.
I’m sure that will scale up to much larger populations without issues.
Are you saying that the people who came up with the original surnames are more qualified than people today? At least with my idea when people come up with a new name they have to use it themselves, rather than their defenseless children.
A lot of last names here are frozen patronyms (e.g. at some point some dude named Hans had kids; now there are lots of people calling themselves his son, Hansen) or place names. I kinda like the place name bit: Just give kids last names to a place they have a connection to. Where they were born or conceived or something.
🎤 My name is chika-chika Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Error: Exceeds character limit
Also jobs. Lots of millers, smiths and hunters etc
Ironically no one had the last name of “prostitute” or “harlot”
coughHookercough
The job was named after Joseph Hooker
Sorry, but unfortunately I got interested and followed your link:
There is a popular legend that “hooker” as a slang term for a prostitute is derived from his last name[26] because of parties and a lack of military discipline at his headquarters near the Murder Bay district of Washington, DC. Some versions of the legend claim that the band of prostitutes that followed his division was derisively referred to as “General Hooker’s Army” or “Hooker’s Brigade”.[27] However, the term “hooker” was used in print as early as 1845, years before Hooker was a public figure,[28] and is likely derived from the concentration of prostitutes around the shipyards and ferry terminal of the Corlear’s Hook area of Manhattan in the early to middle 19th century, who came to be referred to as “hookers”.
lack of military discipline at his headquarters near the Murder Bay district
To be fair, he could probably have chosen a better place to set up…
I, John Prostitute, am offended by this.
Better than Whorson at least.
deleted by creator
Yeah, doesn’t seem to be a thing in Norway, but it could probably be revived for the countries that did that. Like Sheryl Copywriter or Ross Youtuber or whatever.
Dragon Rider The Bathroom At The Roller Rink
Conceived? You really want to be named after the motel your daddy did a big cummy in your mommy’s pussy?
Are you familiar with the Paris Hilton?
It’s tacky, but let’s be honest, that’s the least tacky thing about her.
I think she gets a pass for the last name seeing as the hotels are named after her family and not the other way around.
Not sure if she was conceived in Paris. I’ll ask her next time I’m having a three-way again with her and your mom.
obviously, her family is already named Hilton so GP couldn’t have been referring to that
That last sentence is cursed.
I seem to recall it was pretty common on Reddit (back in the day maybe)
If you say so, Ms. Motel 6.
“London”: Not too bad, works ok.
“Climax”: …
“Tallahassee”: Pretty frickin’ awesome as a nickname but not sure formally.
“Syracuse”: I syr-acuse that of sounding dumb.
But regardless, besides all the “Von” or “De” or whatever names I’m willing to bet that modified or old spelling last names based on places are totally a thing that we also just decided to stop doing.
Yeah, like the -berg names (e.g. Stoltenberg), it’s likely the family farm if you go far enough back. My family has a name that’s an island and the settlement on it. Taking a profile picture next to the town sign that’s also our last name is pretty common (for a name of a few hundred people).
Where they were born or conceived or something.
“Hi there, Mr. Dumpsterbach.”
You’d end up with lots of people in each area having the same name.
And we do! The most common name in the Netherlands translates to “the Frisian”.
Certainly in the long past your last name was probably derived from the town or area that you lived in. I don’t think it would work today.
My wife and I actually did this, sort of. Not a completely new name, but we took her grandmother’s name, rather than either of ours. Or, her great grandfather’s name, I suppose.
Introducing Mr and Mrs. KoboldCoterie!
The only reason I wouldn’t want to take my partner’s name, or have the partner take mine, is the same reason I wouldn’t want to blend. It’s just a headache to make sure everything is changed. It’s why you see a lot of people who published research before their marriage continue to publish under the same name even if they changed their name. It’s a major hassle.
Sure it’s a headache. So why does the woman have to do it? I think either keep your names as is or both people change.
I think either keep your names as is
Uh… that was exactly what I said…
So why does the woman have to do it?
And that was exactly what I was saying I wouldn’t do…
That’s great we’re in agreement. Your comment said “… a lot of people who published research before their marriage continue to publish under the same name even if they changed their name.”
So I didn’t read your comment as saying woman shouldn’t change their name, because you’re describing women changing their name, and then not using the new name in a specific context.
My wife was made fun of for her last name until she was like 25 (her social group sucked), so she was delighted to changed her name when I asked her if we were going to use mine or hers. I still don’t entirely mind changing mine or keeping it: I’d gotten a few public works built around town and one of them was named after me, and if I took her name the chances of getting them to change the name of that shelter were fuck all. You can only be the center of the universe for so long. So it just kind of worked out for both of us.
In Germany the current government had the idea (but never follow through on it) to allow a married couple to form a new last name based on their last names. Funnily enough the article mentions that this meshing of names is already possible and getting more popular in the USA and Great Britain.
Yeah, you can legally change your first and your last name to pretty much whatever you want as long as it isn’t deemed too offensive in both the U.S. and the UK.
https://listverse.com/2024/02/21/10-bizarre-legal-name-changes/
Big props to the kid who legally changed his name to Captain Fantastic Faster Than Superman Spiderman Batman Wolverine Hulk and The Flash Combined
No thanks. I don’t care what my hypothetical spouse wants to do with their last name but I’m not changing mine. Sounds like a pain in the ass.
It is a pain in the ass, a burden that is put on the woman. Men don’t even have to consider changing their last name if they don’t want to, (straight, married) women have to consider if they will betray expectations by not taking her husband’s last name.
why yall having a war in the comments? its a silly meme about last names, who the actual fuck cares?
Because their entire poltical and world view is based on identity politics. They cannot simply say “that joke sucked” and move on, they have to make it into yet another virtue signalling exercise and lecture everyone else because that is the behaviour they associate with being a “good person”.
Probably anyone who ever gotten any pressure about handling last-names after marriage might care. It’s definitely something that some people care about, and some people cop flack for their decision.
The joke is just a joke, but the problem is that this joke punches down. That’s generally poor form.
if you are getting “punched down” (aka offended) by a joke posted on lemmy, by a random guy, you should realize that it is simply not that deep
yeah i didnt get any pressure about handling last names, so you might say “you just dont get it” but when i go to linuxmemes and see a meme about a distro i use, i dont go to comments and start a war about it bc it is just a fucking meme, same concept
if you are getting “punched down” (aka offended) by a joke posted on lemmy, by a random guy, you should realize that it is simply not that deep
I think you’ve misunderstood what punching down means. It has nothing to do with being offended. It’s about the relationship between the person telling the joke and the subject of the joke. For example, it’s generally fine for anyone to make jokes mocking rich people; but its not ok to make jokes mocking poor people unless you yourself are very obviously a poor person.
People online do not understand jokes. I refuse to believe anyone in real life would be this dense.
In real life people would see this lol and move on, on the internet they write dissertations about some BS to virtue signal to other strangers how enlightened they are… 🙄
Truth Social is a better fit for y’all
Make up your own surname to assert dominance. Or go by your internet handle.
Reminder that surnames didn’t exist before the middle ages, you just had a singular name that people shouted to get your attention. Since you lived in a community of several dozen people, you didn’t need to do much to differentiate yourself from the other “John” in your town because everyone knows each other. You lived and died just as “John” and would be remembered by your kids for a generation if you were lucky. There was no need to keep track of genealogy, you were a pair of hands and legs, you were supposed to get out there and plow that field and that’s all your baron or lord cared about.
But somewhere after the black plague ravaged Europe and we lost a sizeable chunk of the human population, suddenly workers became in high-demand. Industrialist lords and landowners suddenly didn’t have people smithing their horse shoes or making their bread, so they had to go poach people from far away towns and suddenly workers had power and options. As a way to get noticed for your family’s tradeskill, you would have been wise to advertise this to wealthy employers, the best way was to attach your trade to your name. You were now John Baker to differentiate yourself from John the Drunkard if anyone came looking to hire someone who could cook bread.
So surnames are advertising. It’s all it’s ever been. There’s nothing ancient and special about your name, it was just how your ancestors tried to make a buck.
🤓
To be fair, even before the plagues, workers were way in demand (and hence every single adult that reaches majority, or youth that wishes to pretend). Throughout the agrarian age, societies suffered from a stark labor shortage, which is why even bastard kids were not too frowned upon, and even those with disabilities were sought for anything they might be able to do.
That all changed in the industrial age, when fewer people were necessary to run machines that did work.
In modern day, this is an issue with religious movements (cults whether dangerous or not) who decide to create their own commune. Either the intentional community has too few people to complete all the necessary tasks, or enough that renegade behavior (corruption, antisocial behavior, etc.) becomes a problem, since security details cannot help but become political.
/🤓
Jokes on you, my dad took my mom’s name
Your dad took your mother’s dads name.
Turns out it was her middle name.
What if their dad took his wife’s 1st name as his last name?
not just his name, but his DNA too!
Unpopular opinion: Last names are inherently patriarchal and so is marriage
On Spain we have two last names, one for the father other for the mother.
And while before the father’s was always the first, since many years couples of newborn babies can choose the order of the surnames.
Is the latter your mother’s first or second last name?
First last name. Example:
Mother: Maria García Perez
Father: Juan Rodríguez Domínguez
Their kids can be named:
Adela García Rodríguez
or
Adela Rodríguez García
Ans once selected the order with the first kid all the kids from the same couple must follow the same order.
So it’s the mother’s father’s name, or the names of both grandfathers. Still patrilineal
I mean, if you go that way, when surnames where created in the middle ages it was the name of the man.
All spanish surnames ending in -ez mean “son of”. And it’s always male names.
But change has to start at some point.
Some cultures trace heritage both patrilineal and matrilineal, so taking the first last name of your father as your first and the second last name of your mother as your second would be that.
I’m curious, which country does it like that? Seems pretty interesting.
Yeah I’ve always thought it was weird that women are supposed to give up their identity to a man to be married. I’m not really sure why hyphenated names aren’t as popular in the western world or why people don’t occasionally chose to take the woman’s name. I know that women don’t have to change their names, but then often you’ll have the kids as the same name as the father anyway but not the mother. So I’ve heard many women say that they did it so their kids would share their last name.
Hell, I don’t even like my father. But my name is who I am and I like it.
with hyphenated names: what would the children do then? you can’t keep adding more and more names like that (both practically and legally in some cases). serious question because I’ve also thought about that
I think it varies with culture, but from my understanding, usually they take the first name of the two hyphens for their own marriage.
So you have John Doe and Jane Smith. They hyphenate their names as Doe-Smith and the children do as well.
Say they have a daughter Sally Doe-Smith who meets Tim Johnson-Star. So they marry and hyphenate their names as Johnson-Doe. Both Smith and Star get dropped.
Yes, in examples like this, it still ends up as getting rid of the maternal aspect of the lineage in the very end…but the point is still that both parties are keeping part of and changing another part of their names. It’s not an all or nothing total switch of identity. The lineage is male, but the here and now is an equal compromise of identity.
Not enough to balance things out
Maybe not quite, but iml it’s certainly leaps and bounds better that altering your identity entirely in submission of a partner.
You clearly haven’t met Brazilians
In Canada, you legally pick up to 2 of your parents’ last names for your last name
In
SovietRussia you pick a last name. Any last name. Except containing numbers, non-letters, more than one hyphen, rank or job title.
My name is Maximus Decimus Arnold Garfield Butcher Smith Hendrickson Meridius, and you shall have my name.
The way that I’m gonna do it is whoever has the coolest/most unique last name is the one whose name is adopted. If they’re both equally cool, then hyphenated it is.
Hyphenated names are too long. One of my good friends has one and people just refer to him and his siblings by the initials of their last name, like “Tim MP”
How do hyphenated names work after the next generation? Seems like that would get out of hand quickly when people with hyphenated last names start having kids with each other.
“Gifting” kids with absurdly long names isn’t new.
It is weird because we as a civilization believe women are persons and corporations are not. And sooner or later, Molotovs will be thrown in support of this notion, since silence is being interpreted as consent.
Whoops. That was my outside voice.🪀🪀💣🪀
Sorry I’m not understanding what you mean
The reason women take their husband’s name is because they’re property, and rights to their person transfers from their father to their husband.
That’s it.
And right now (at least in the States, maybe in some parts of Europe) there are large far-right movements trying to return society to those days.
Find your crew or your fam, and have them give you your given name. Then choose your surname. Break free.
Ah ok yeah your first comment was sarcastic then haha
Been divorced twice, neither of them gave much of a shit and never changed their surname back. My wife’s Filipino and was very proud to take my surname. Ran right out and changed all her documents. Her enthusiasm was touching!
I’m in the opposite place! Met my dad when I was 20 and he really wanted me to change to his surname. Sorry dad, that would have felt really weird.
So, just do what a few couples in my circle of friends did and use her last name after marriage?
I would think it would be just as weird to collectively switch to matronymic last names as a society. It would make more sense to me if couples just decided which name they liked better and went with that, be it coming from the man or woman. So a more even split of that sort of pattern is what I mean.
Yeah, that’s what people do here in Germany.
Ah I didn’t know that! Interesting!
Why would that be the case? How would marriage between two equals in a non-patriarchy be patriarchal? What about marriage between two women? What about last names in a society of beings without gender?
I think you didnt mean ‘inherently’
is that an unpopular opinion, or just a well-known fact?
Maybe all my downvotes come from people who say it’s the latter? I’ve been in bubbles that see it as a well known fact, I’ve talked to left leaning people who didn’t. Maybe it’s just a wording I used to attract attention, maybe not, we will never know for sure.
my instance doesn’t show downvotes, so all I see is that you have lots of upvotes 😊
I suspect downvotes would come from people who disagree that marriage is patriarchal, tbh - I think a lot of people don’t really understand patriarchy or feminism, so they might thing you are being hyperbolic, like claiming marriage is akin to beating your wife or something.
Or they could just be responding merely to the language and not even the content, i.e. by talking about patriarchy at all or posing it in social terms they might think you have been duped by woke propaganda.
Whether it’s an unpopular opinion just depends on what crowd you are in. I think a lot of people understand marriage is a patriarchal institution, that a patrilineal naming scheme is part of that patriarchy, etc., but I’m sure there are lots of people who think that is false, or over-stated, or who aren’t entirely sure what ten-dollar words like “patrilineal” actually mean, lol.
my instance doesn’t show downvotes, so all I see is that you have lots of upvotes 😊
In that case: the majority is still upvotes so I’m not complaining or anything :)
I think the downvotes come from a semantic disagreement, based on a strong or weak definition of the word ‘inherent’.
huh, that sounds like a rationalization, a way to find a problem with a critique that sounds more defensible or reasonable than defending patriarchy
My point is, by looking at one of the replies, that people might just be misunderstanding the argument being presented, as they have a different understanding of what ‘inherent’ means, and if you look up a dictionary definition, you can understand why.
For example: in “existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.”, the first two clauses are immutable, but third is mutable.
As last names are a social construct, their characteristics and usage can change over time. Just because they started as, or are predominately used as a tool of patriarchy, doesn’t mean that’s what they will be in the future. If you believe that something ‘inherent’ is an immutable trait, that you would disagree with the premise of the argument, but if you think it’s just a characteristic trait, then you would generally agree - if I change my last name to ‘Orange’ to signify my love of the fruit/colour, it is still a last name, but has nothing to do with patriarchy, proving that patriarchy is not an immutable trait of last names.
Personally, I think that both marriage and last names are predominately used as tools to enforce patriarchy historically and currently, but can imagine that changing in the future. But when I initially looked at the OP’s statement, I disagreed, because I understood ‘inherent’ to be an immutable trait.
Unpopular opinion: Patriarchy as defined by feminists is a nebulous and unfalsifiable concept that can be replaced by “the devil” without changing the meaning of the sentence it’s used in.
Also, serious posting in a shitposting thread.
I donno but this sounds like something the devil would say
you could swap the subject of criticism with “the devil” in any sentence and it would be the same though?
“the devil (covid-19) caused a pandemic”
“the devil (billionaires) is pushing more people into poverty”
“the devil (adhd) is making me procrastinate doing the dishes”
“the devil (you) has really weak criticisms of feminism, since if only he read about it, he’d realise he can see and feel the effects of the patriarchy everywhere. and the way he talks right now makes me believe he only knows the concept from strawman memes”
“i refuse to listen to what feminists say, and because of that i have no concept of their actual positions and it’s all really nebulous and confusing to me” —that user
(edit: by “that user” i mean @rooty, if that wasn’t clear? @[email protected] you are totally correct)
Which feminists are you even referring to exactly? There are different waves of feminism and different strands (like liberal feminism, marxist feminism, black feminism, …). Either you picked a few straw(wo)men who have a shitty definition or you are confused by the variety of definitions and approaches and that confuses you.
my comment was about @rooty who said “Patriarchy as defined by feminists is a nebulous and unfalsifiable concept” not you or anyone else. because of course, people who actually read any wave or subsect of feminism will immediately find feminists have a whole host of concrete and evidenced conceptions of the term patriarchy.
i was seeking to laugh at @rooty who has clearly never done any work to listen to any feminist and gets all their undestanding of it from straw man memes.
it seems people like yourself are misunderstanding my language to mean the opposite, sorry for any confusion.
Sorry, I didn’t read the username and thought it’s rooty again
ohh that might explain some of the other downvotes too lol
In these examples you used “the devil” as a placeholder for explainable phenomena with varying causes, none of them being unfalsifiable. Now consider the following sentence:
“The wage gap is causes by the patriarchy” – Surely there are no complex causes being substituted by a nebulous concept here, is it?
the concept is only “nebulous” to people who are talking out of their asses, when they haven’t even bothered to look past the word definition and strawman memes about the patriarchy
man, please, stop making yourself look like a fool, go read about it, it’s really not that hard
none of us would judge you @[email protected] if you picked up and perused this free copy of Feminism is for Everybody by bell hooks right now. in fact that would be really cool.
yep and it’s good that opinion stays unpopular
Okay well, whats the benefit to the male?
the patriarchy doesn’t benefit the male. in fact, most men are overall harmed by the forces of patriarchy.
the goal of patriarchy is to subjugate and repress an “other,” that is, women. it’s true that patriarchy gives privelege to men, but equating privilege and benefit is to misunderstand the core components of the system.
An aspect of patriarchy is patrilineality. Belonging to your fathers lineage rather than your mother’s or even being stripped of your heritage and being a mere adjunct to your husband isn’t materially benefiting the man but lays the ground for that
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Sigh. Lemmy in a nutshell.
Except that it’s older than that, even in Europe, there was quite some time between the Black Plague and capitalism. But they originate in China where they are much older. Sure, capitalism is composed of many aspects and maybe China had some aspect associated with capitalism back than as well and I’m not too sure about the connection between Europe and China regarding last names. I donno.
In The Second Sex, De Beauvoir quotes Engels as he argues that patriarchy (as we know it today) likely arose with the advent of private property. So there is some relation to capitalism (of which private property is a core component), but it goes back way further than the Black Plague and marking it down to “trade promotion” is over-simplistic at best in that it’s wayyyy worse than that.
What you are saying is that private property laid the basis for patriarchy and (much later) for capitalism
That is what I am quoting De Beauvoir and Engels as saying, yes.
that’s right, promoting your trade is capitalism folks
Yeah, my mom said she didn’t care about taking my dad’s last name, that it didn’t matter since, in her words “women don’t have last names anyway” they are just a way of tracing men’s family lines.
If you didn’t know, Spanish people have two names: the first name of their father and the first name of their mother.
Since these names are their grandfathers names, here’s a better proposal : the first name of your father and the second name of your mother. In that case, your first name corresponds to a bloodline of men and your second name to a bloodline of women… Unless their was a same-sex couple in your family, obviously.
Bonus point, since you get your Y chromosome (if you have one) from your biological father and your mitochondrial DNA from your biological mother, your names correspond to your actual DNA… Unless you’re adopted or illegitimate, obviously.
You can actually chose to have them reverted (mother first, father second). Also, the wife does not take the husband’s surname.
Holy comment section batman
Homelander has the best guy resting bitch face I’ve ever seen.
